Scipio Posted March 23, 2001 Share Posted March 23, 2001 I want to know how much artillery usualy was assigned to Infantry platoons or companys or battallions etc. ------------------ Keine Gefangenen! Visit my Combat Mission Sound Mods site! Scipiobase Join the Blitzkrieg Wargaming Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted March 23, 2001 Share Posted March 23, 2001 Artillery wasn't usually assigned at the platoon or company level. The batallion or regiment would have some alloted to fire in support for attack or in defensive situations, and it could be either pre-planned or on-call. How much they got depended upon the situation and how much ammo was available. Recall that the standard US infantry division, for instance, had 9 infantry battalions containing 27 line companies and 9 heavy weapons companies. Supporting this and organic to the division were 3 battalions of 105 howitzers and 1 battalion of 155's. Corps could throw in an equal or greater number of battalions if the case dictated it, usually of higher power like 155 gun, 4.5in gun and 8 in howitzer. Complicating this is the fact that the infantry also had organic mortars and frequently had direct fire guns (pack howitzers) for their own use. Often the US Army units used the regimental cannon companies of short-barrel 105's as supplements to the division artillery. These guns did not often get direct fire missions unless the situation was dire. If you want to fiddle with approximations, I'd say a battery of 105's (6 guns) for each infantry battalion equivalent engaged in standard combat operations would be a fair idea of what could be expected. Increase this for assaults and decrease it for mobile operations as the artillery couldn't always keep up. Armored formations had slightly different ratios in the US Army. The armored divisions, with two exceptions, fielded 3 tank battalions, 3 armored infantry battalions and 3 armored artillery battalions, often organized into 3 combat commands whose strengths varied by mission. Armored divisions could expect artillery attachments as well. That's my two bits worth, anyway, hope it helps. Any other takers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted March 23, 2001 Share Posted March 23, 2001 gunnergoz gave a good first pass. CM point limits will also keep you in the right ballpark in QBs. In scenarios, don't give more than 1/3rd of a side's points in artillery form. Part of the issue here is that artillery gets some of its power by intervening where it is needed, while letting other places "starve". And it can shift who is being supported quite rapidly, as a battle shifts to now this area hot, now that one. The most common form of artillery support on all sides was 81mm mortars (3" for the UK forces). Everyone had these at the battalion level (only exception is German armored PzGdr). They would support whatever company is engaged, so they can be present in any scenario of company size up to battalion. Just one module of them, 1 FO, unless most of a 2nd battalion is also present. The next most common form of artillery support would be fire by a battery, or a whole battalion, of the divisional artillery. This means 105mm for U.S. and Germans, 25-lber for the UK forces. And the amount could be just 1 FO, or it could be 2-3 all firing together. That represents a "battalion shoot", by one of the typically 3 artillery battalions in the division. A full battalion of support would be more common, for a battalion infantry force, obviously. In extreme cases, there could be so much artillery firing in support of a single battalion, that you might as well just call the whole thing off. Meaning, there wasn't any fight at the CM scale of things; the opposing sides didn't get close enough for that. There were too many shells falling on one of them, or between, for too long. Less common forms of support, but on the order of 1/3rd of the time not "snowballs chance", are heavier tube artillery, the most common being 150mm and 155mm. (Not sure what the equivalent is for the Brits - 4.5" or 5.5" mebe). These again could be 1 or could be 2-3 together. Or, the medium mortars - 120mm German, 4.2" allies, which you'd get in a single FO. German 150mm rockets also belong here, but with 2-4 of them possible (they are innaccurate, but can put in a "spoiling barrage" at the start). German infantry might have 75mm in addition, 1 FO, if they don't have 75mm infantry guns deployed on-map for direct fire. All the stuff heavier than those types would be rare. Some special units types would have slightly different forms of support. U.S. cavalry recon, tank destroyer units, and paratroops, would have 75mm support. In the case of the paras, 2-3 of them, or even 2 75mm and 1 105mm, singles for the other unit types. German gebirgsjaeger (the mountain infantry) would be similar, with mostly 75mm support. When mixing support types, you can count the 81mm as seperate and sort of ordinary. Don't count it against the rest. A single 75mm added, the same. A single battery of 150mm or higher, or and number of German 150mm rockets, can also be a sort of add-on. Otherwise, pick one type. E.g. a U.S. armored task force, battalion sized mixed tank n armored infantry, 1x81mm plus 1-3x105mm. Or, a German infantry company, 1x81mm. Or, a British reinforced company w/ a tank platoon, 1x3" mortar plus 1x25-lber As you climb from company to battalion sized, you can think of the support as 1 FO per company, with the first being the 81mm. Topping out at around 4-5 FOs, though (e.g. for a reinforced battalion). YMMV. Remember, in the real deal they weren't hard-wired to support this unit instead of that. They fired where the action was. But then they ran out of shells (or their "daily ration" of them) and didn't support the next guy. So it isn't a hard and fast rule, just a ballpark level that comes out about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted March 23, 2001 Author Share Posted March 23, 2001 Thanx for infos, pals. ------------------ Keine Gefangenen! Visit my Combat Mission Sound Mods site! Scipiobase Join the Blitzkrieg Wargaming Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 23, 2001 Share Posted March 23, 2001 As has been touched on, Commonwealth troops had 3 inch and 25 pounder support. Jason has left out the 4.2" mortars of the Divisional machine gun battalion, though. Each Commonwealth infantry division had three field regiments of 25 pounders, one per infantry brigade. As pointed out, FOOs calling for more fire support could call on the 4.5 and 5.5 howitzers which were Divisional and Corps level assets. You had to have a pretty juicy target in your sights to be able to call down such fire, though. [This message has been edited by Michael Dorosh (edited 03-23-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoAttacker Posted March 23, 2001 Share Posted March 23, 2001 Scipio, Here is a web site I refer to for OoBs. http://www.britwar.co.uk/lists/index.htm It has been quite helpful in setting up some scenarios. Michael "Gonzo" Gonzalez ------------------ "Victory smiles upon those who anticipate the changes in the character of war, not upon those who wait to adapt themselves after they occur." General Guilio Douhet 1920 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted March 23, 2001 Author Share Posted March 23, 2001 Originally posted by GonzoAttacker: Scipio, Here is a web site I refer to for OoBs. http://www.britwar.co.uk/lists/index.htm It has been quite helpful in setting up some scenarios. Michael "Gonzo" Gonzalez Thanx, excellent link ------------------ Keine Gefangenen! Visit my Combat Mission Sound Mods site! Scipiobase Join the Blitzkrieg Wargaming Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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