Snipers in US Rifle 44 Squads?

[Panther G]

I am reading the book Against the Panzer, and it says "Within the infantry regiment the smallest subunit was the rifle squad of twelve men (armed with ten M1 .30-caliber Garand rifles, one Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) and one M1903 Springfield sniper's rifle). I was wondering why in CM the Sniper's rifle is replaced by the Thompson SMG.

Thanks, Panther G

[David Aitken]

Not snipers, but marksmen (sharpshooters) are modelled in CM as individuals.

I have a feeling that SMGs became more prevalent later in the war, but someone with the appropriate data can give you a better idea.

[offtaskagain]

Squad leaders almost always disregarded TOE and carried an SMG, either Thompson, M3, or occasionally captured MP40s.

[Michael Emrys]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panzerwerfer42:

Squad leaders almost always disregarded TOE and carried an SMG, either Thompson, M3, or occasionally captured MP40s.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right. The Springfield was hardly ever issued on the squad level after 1942, and even then only in the Pacific, as far as I have been able to discover. Sharpshooters were usually one to a platoon or company.

Michael

[BloodyBucket]

Wasn't the Springfield used to launch grenades? Later, a setup for the Garand was fielded, but early on I think the '03 was kept for the grenade launching role.

[Gyrene]

The Springfield was used to launch grenades, I think one was kept at hand in each platoon ready with the special ammo, rather than having to reload a M1 with the special round, as it is not a very handy thing to do to a M1 with some rounds already in the magazine.

Springfields with scopes were issued out to Companies ( M1903D, if I'm not mistaken) and there really was no organized "sniper" programs as they are known today until the Vietnam War. Usually the best shots in the Company were given the rifle and very little other training besides what they might have learned hunting in civilian life, then again sharpshooters were generally kept within the Company area of opeartion and not sent out on their own.

Only the Germans and the Russians really employed free ranging snipers and then again, mostly in the Eastern Front.

Gyrene

[Michael Emrys]

Say, Gyrene, would you happen to know whether the Marines who landed on Guadalcanal were armed with Garands yet, or were they partially or completely still armed with Springfields? I have this notion that they were at least partially armed with Springfields but I don't know where I got it from and don't have any way immediately to hand to check on it.

Michael

[BloodyBucket]

The 1st Mardiv had Springfields when they landed on Guadalcanal, and did not get Garands until the army showed up armed with them later in the campaign.

The Garands were highly sought after by the Marines, many of whom were suspicious of the Garand until they had seen it perform in combat.

There is a sea story (Be sceptical) about a joint Army-Marine patrol on the island in the closing phases of the campaign. During the patrol, a Marine sticks to a certain soldier like a shadow, and after some time, the soldier thanks the Marine for his obvious concern for his safety, as they are walking point for the patrol.

The Marine replys, " To hell with you. When you get shot I am going to get your M-1 before those other bastards get up here."

The Marines were also armed with Reising guns on Guadalcanal, wich were so despised that many got dumped and claimed as "lost in combat".

In the Marine Corps, it is said that the only difference between a sea story and a fairy tale is that the fairy tale starts with "Once apon a time", and the sea story starts with "This is no ****" .

[ 05-26-2001: Message edited by: BloodyBucket ]

[Michael Emrys]

Thanks, BB. That's consistent with what I thought, though where I got the idea other than watching "Guadalcanal Diary" many years ago I can't say.

:eek:

Michael

[Gyrene]

Michael, Bucket's last post is correct about Garands in Guadalcanal.

The USMC was really stubborn on giving up the Springfield, and it is the one time I really wish the old timers had just pipped up and upgraded. The performance of M1-equipped Army units against Banzai charges really made an impression on the Corps.

Gyrene