Horncastle Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 Can someone please tell me what the typical arms giving to bunker crew was in WWII? I can see why tank crew when bailing out are only giving a few pistols, but I am sure a bunker packed with 5 men and a big MG would have a back up of varied side arms to help defend their position in the event it got overrun. Does anyone think randomising crews weapons would make the game a little more realistic i.e bunker crew would have a higher prob of recieving a few mp44's and rifles to defend themselves with while tankers would end up with nothing or maybe a pistol. Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/014314.html That's the latest huge debate over this. In short: NO! NO! NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 Although it may be realistic to give them weapons of some kind the fear is it will promote gamey behaviour, the kind mentioned in the thread listed. In the end, 5 freaked guys aren't going to make much difference to your battle, armed or not, so best not to worry about it PeterNZ ------------------ "I can be quite pleasant, you know" - Andreas "WHERE'S THE MOAT?!" - Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 I think what could work here is if they get weapons but next to no ammo. If you think about it, bunker crews will only leave their place if somebody has a bead onto it already and knocked it out. Very unhealthy idea to hang around and wait for the next one to be posted through the firing slit while you gather the ammo, the potted plants and the pictures of Yvette, the nice red-head from the village down the road (not that fraternisation was allowed, according to my grandfather ) So if bunker crews were able to get out with a random number of weapons (to simulate possible battle damage) and low ammo status, that might add to realism in the game. These guys really were infantry, after all. The same treatment could be thought about for gun crews, although there the issue is borderline. Opinions on a postcard please Short story on this - my grandfather was on counter-battery observation duty when a Russian tank put an AP round through their bunker. The round smashed into the rifle rack (d'uh) and the bolt mechanism of one rifle smashed into the knee of one of my grandfather's men. They decided they all had enough medals and did not really need the Nahkampfspange, so they dressed up their comrade and made off to the rear. The guy survived, but lost the leg above the knee. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. [This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 01-08-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 I wouldn't rate bunker crews in the same class as vehicle crews. Of the two bunkers currently included in CM, the MG bunker is at least an "infantry" type, even if only second line types in some cases. The PaK bunker would be manned by artillerists, who may or may not know a rifle from a hole in the ground, depending on how generous you feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horncastle Posted January 8, 2001 Author Share Posted January 8, 2001 I think this point is far different than the one regarding tank crews. Bunker crews would most likely expect a heavy assult and be outnumbered, to abandon your bunker with a 9mm pistol would be suicide( granted if it had been flamed you would leave sharpish)you would most likely find yourself in the sights of approaching inf and would need some decent defesive weapons to hold them back and withdraw. Low ammo and the lack of any command are enough penalties to render these chaps useless in offensive/recce moves. My point is that they should be armed appropriately to be able to defend themselves and hold off a squad of inf to be able to escape to friendly lines Myabe one could be given some form of bonus points for getting crews off the board to encourage a realistic use of crew as it seems was the case, with tank crews trying to get back and fight another day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Mahone Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 My thoughts on this have always been along the lines of the "status" of the crew. I have read the story of an American tank commander who wrote that they always carried some M1 rifles, and a BAR in their Sherman. I have had tanks get hit and abandoned with no casualties. In those cases it would be nice if the crew grabbed some rifles on the way out. But I also think that this scenario would be very hard to calculate. Say the threat is far away, your Sherman gets hit and there is no one heart. The problem is that the crew thinks Mark IV 500m away just might pump another 75 into them. My final thoughts on this is, that the game is fine the way it is. Crews are not defenceless and they are not half-squads (that's fair). They are just men who saw their lives flash before them and are lucky enough to fight another day (in another tank). As for bunker crew I feel the same way. It will be interesting to see how BTS addresses this topic in CM 2, if they address it at all....... Just my two cents, Head ------------------ "No man ever won a war by dieing for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." -General George S. Patton, Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 Nooooo!! Let's not go here again! The last 100 post debate was still hot yesterday. [This message has been edited by Jarmo (edited 01-08-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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