60mm mortar question

[CMplayer]

Okay, I understand that the guys in the

mortar team are needed to carry ammo, which

is why ammo is lost if one of them is

wounded. But what if they are dug-in?

The ammo would be just lying around

available regardless if one or two guys

in the team are lost. Same goes for bazooka

teams. Does it work that way?

Also, after an American Airborne mortar

team runs out of HE why do all six guys

just cower in their foxholes while German

infantry approaches their position? Shouldn't

they at least have LOW ammo, for small

arms weapons, carbines or something?

I realize that mortar teams are misused

as 'rifle' reserve squads in CC, but

shouldn't they at least be able to lay

down some small arms fire in a pinch,

in the interest of historical accuracy?

I mean there are FIVE or SIX of them

for goodness sake. Shouldn't Airborne

troops in particular display a bit more

versatility?

regards,

--Rett

[Guest Mr. Johnson-<THC>-]

I agree with you. But BTS wants us to use these weapons the way they were supposed to be used. Plus these guys are artillary men, its their specialty, not shooting at running targets at 100rds. I played the crap out of CC 1,2,3 and even now when my infantry get plastered I want to have my guys toss smoke between my guys and that damn Stug. But in the name of so called historical accuracy, I'm sure their were tankers that brought Thompsons with them into battle just in case their sherman got cooked. Would be great If my Sherman crews could go Panzershreck hunting after they lost their ride.

[jasoncawley@ameritech.net]

Realistically, the mortar guys have 1xSMG, 2xCarbine, 3xM-1, and the MG crews have 1xSMG, 1xCarbine, 2xM-1. Half-squads without BARs, or the FP of a HQ unit more or less. And yes, historically they did fight with those arms after running out of their mortar ammo, but not always.

What is often really going on, though, is that half of the team is not actually where the weapon is, both for mortar teams and for MG teams. They are on a hump carrying ammo forward or hiking to the rear to get more. The mortar or MG itself can be run by 2 men, and there is a sergeant in the team who would usually be directing the fire. The others are out getting stuff, like as not, and sometimes the sergeant is with them.

It is not too unrealistic, therefore, to show them unarmed for close combat. The reality is they could defend themselves and sometimes turned into an added half-squad, but if they were represented that way players would *always* use them that way, have every man present, etc, which would be less realistic not more so.

The time when the current system is annoyingly unrealistic is when the weapons teams are not being misused, but get rushed by enemy infantry after their ammo is gone or their MG is jammed, since they do not defend themselves at all. In reality, they would, at least the ~1/2 of the men actually present, with light small arms and grenades.

As for tank crews, there was always 1 SMG and a number of grenades available to a tank crew, as well as the pistols. And certainly, the men often armed themselves with carbines or SMGs. But they also were not trained infantrymen, and almost never took a serious part in a battle after bailing out. Again, the only unrealistic situation is how easily they get wiped out in close assault by line enemy infantry squads. But probably many in that situation surrendered.

IN CM, the right way to handle a bailed tank crew or mortar team out of ammo, is just to keep them safe and move them to the rear and out of the battle when that can safely be done. They are enemy VPs on the hoof. Occasionally a crew should hide instead and "pass on" sighting reports ("by runner" I suppose - not entirely realistic but what hey).

Don't try to use them in a gamey fashion and you are less likely to get them killed. To actually protect e.g. a mortar platoon position, though, it is best to tell off one line infantry squad to cover them, broken into half-squads to cross-fire their front, or assisting a nearby MG position to accomplish the same thing. Realistically the mortarmen should be able to provide that level of security themselves, but in CM they do not, so you have to adapt practices to fill the need.

[MC]

Did artillery spotters carry sidearms? I would never think to go on the offense with them, but I was playing a QB last night, and I ran 2 sets of 81 mm spotters upstairs into a church where an SS rifle squad was hiding. Fortunately my spotters didn't get seen by the SS squad, which was quicky supressed by several other units, but if the SS did see my spotters first wouldn't my spotters at least have sidearms to shoot back?

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Don't shoot...let 'em burn! - from opening scene, SPR

[CMplayer]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MC:

if the SS did see my spotters first wouldn't my spotters at least have sidearms to shoot back?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Naw, but they could thwack the SS guys

with those binoculars.

regards,

--Rett

[109 Gustav]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CMplayer:

Okay, I understand that the guys in the

mortar team are needed to carry ammo, which

is why ammo is lost if one of them is

wounded. But what if they are dug-in?

The ammo would be just lying around

available regardless if one or two guys

in the team are lost. Same goes for bazooka

teams. Does it work that way?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, it does. If one man in a bazooka team gets killed, the other one will still have all 8 rounds to fire. However, if he moves, he will have to leave all but 3 rounds behind. Panzershrecks will only have 2 rounds left if they move.

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