Tank Rider Question and suggestions

[Commissar]

I always see this pictures of Russian troops on board a T-34 or some such vehicle. My understanding is that the Russians sometimes put these troops on top of tanks in order to provide quick infantry support for the armor units. The dangers of this are obvious, but I am wondering exactly how widespread and common this practice really was in the Red Army. Did they only do this if they suspected the sector was lightly defended? Did they eventually use half-tracks for troop transport during an assault (their own or Lend-lease)? I don't recall ever seeing a photo of Soviet soldiers utilizing them during an attack situation. I have studied the Soviet Army for a long while but all of it was on the modern Soviet Army, and not the WW2 era Red Army. I have ordered a few book titles like, "The Red Army Handbook" and "When Titans Clash" for studying the WW2 Red Army. Any other definitive books? I am curious to know what their strategies and tactics were like before the Cold War. Was there anything like an OMG concept at this early stage? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Cos]

Check out this site.

http://history.vif2.ru/atwar/index.html

The interview with Dmitriy Fedorovich Loza, Guards Colonel a soviet tank commander talks about infantry units riding on the tanks with them in a few sections.

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Cos

[Holman]

This issue brings up a question I've had about CM.

How are tank riders penalized in the game? I know that they can't fire, and that they are prone to panic when they come under fire, but does the game also model an extra degree of exposure and vulnerability for squads riding tanks? I assume that they take more casualties up there than they would lying on the ground.

Also, I notice that the TacAI is able to target a vehicle passenger, but that the player cannot target passengers specifically in the orders phase. Occasionally I'll start a new turn and find a targetting line that looks like it's going to a tank, but is actually labelled as leading to the squad on the back.

Martyr

[Zakalwe]

I don't have my information handy, but as I recall, The Red Army didn't use its lend-lease halftracks as APCs. Instead, they were mainly used as command and recon vehicles. IIRC, the motorised and tank corps had some M3s in their TO&E from late 42 onwards. They were part of the motorised brigades' recon companies. Apparently the M3 was preferred to the Soviet armoured cars in difficult terrain.

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z

veteran of the psychic wars

[Commissar]

I have used tank riders in some of my games and they are definitely risky to use. Against prepared positions, I wouldn't recommend using it. Assuming your troops even make it to the target without breaking, they will most likely be seriously hit and not at their best. However, it can work quite well if you land the troops in an undefended or very lightly defended area. Half-tracks are a lot better. The troops are better protected and the MG on the half-track provides instant support for the assault troops. When you combine several half-tracks together in this role, their suppressive effect is quite enormous.

[Guest Rommel22]

Commisar,

I recommend "Fighting for the Soviet Motherland" by (edited) Dimitri Loza. This is basicly a collection of Soviet veterans re-collections of the fighting in 41-45 on the eastern front. It's a great book and teaches you a lot about some of the thing the Russian soldiers had to go through.

check it out at amazon.com

Hope you like it!

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Rommel22s Kampfgruppe site:

http://rommel22diarys.homestead.com/MyPage1.html

"I saw 5 Germans walking down the side of the road, so I followed them for a few yard to get closer. Then I shot them! Later that day I found out the war has been over for a few weeks." - someone

[Terence]

A couple of times, I've used tanks to ferry slow moving teams closer to the front lines.

Its a good way to get, for example, a .50 cal team up where he can support your advancing infantry.

Riding on the tank makes up for the fact that the mg team cannot run, but the infantry can.

[argie]

About riders vulnerability:

In a QB I'm playin, my opponent sent a M8 at fast speed loaded with a MMG team. A 50mm AT shells hits the M8, which dies in a catastrophic explosion. The MMG team was wipped out instantly.

About targeting riders, have you tried making vehicles invisible (shift+V)?

Ariel

[Deathdealer]

I'm just in ME QB and I had 'warm' welcome to other guy - I had three PzIVJs waiting down a hill when there came Shermans in to my tanks view - in next two rounds I got four of them and lost one of my own (range like 200m). It was very nice to get 'belly-shots' on them - anyway one of Sherman lightened up totally and had one 12 man group on board: all were killed instantly!

Lucky for me he negleted inf advance totally and I got some important shot 'cheaply'...

[Guest Mikey D]

I've seen pictures of heavily modified Shermans in 45, complete with stepladders and railings for the troops on the back hull! So it had to have been somewhat common. You also see it a lot in Vietnam era pictures, but I've never seen picts of an M1 Abrams ferrying troops.

A common mistake in CM is to roll your troop-filled half-tacks and Shermans right up to the front line. A halftrack could safely get closer than a truck, but with 6mm armor you didn't want to get TOO close!