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Panzer IV and Stug IIIG: converting from sl/asl


Guest grunto
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Guest grunto

The stuG and Pziv in sl and asl were pretty good in the late war. Is part of the problem with the stugs in CE that the crews are not that good? Of course as i'm writing this my shermans are getting smoked in that one by jworthy and his stugs. i think though that that can be chalked up to my incompetence as the ami commander in that one.

getting back to the stugs and pz4s, are they weaker in CM relative to a sherman 75 than they were in Squad leader? Or are the shermans we've seen so far in the gold demo all +2 armor or whatever in the old squad leader?

is it an earlier sherman i'm remembering as being on a par with the stug and pz4 at these close ranges? do late-war shermans excluding the jumbo have fairly nice armor? The jumbo has the equivalent of somewhere between a tiger1 and a panther doesn't it?

So am i imagining things or are these AFVs weaker in CM than they were in squad leader? What about at long range? Would combat mission's version of these vehicles with their '75L' guns score more hits than the basic sherman with a medium 75?... Did the allies even have a 75L or was it the 76L which was on a par with the german 75L?

The stugs usually get toasted quickly in face-to-face action against the shermans. i don't remember it being quite so harsh in squad leader...

Hats off to jworthy on his use of stugs in our current scenario. I've started 8 PBEMs so far and finished one and am on turn 19 in VOT as the amis in a nailbiter (panther dead, two sherms left). The CE as amis against jworthy is the biggest FUBAR on my part of the 8 of them. He's a good commander though.

It's funny i posted a message up here about the stugs being bad and how i could just charge the church with my sherms... then the tanks got out of sync and one stug caught 2 sherms and took them both out. the other 3 sherms were out of los... now through some more bungled orders i've lost a platoon unit and a squad, have several mauled squads, lost a bazooka...oh and another sherman... the agony... <g>

andy

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I think the Shermans have a better crew in CE. But one of the things that really make it hard for the Stugs is ofcourse the fact that their starting-position isn't that great.

The Americans can just speed to the small wall and into the "forrest" giving them 2 or 3 victory points. The Stugs have to drive over or around a hill to get in LOS. If you go over the hill then you have about 3 Shermans shooting at ya and if you go around the hill you have about 2/3 Shermans pounding yer butt.

Ofcourse this is the case in MY setup, but i'm fairly sure that if the deployment was the other way around, the Shermans wouldn't be very happy either smile.gif

PanzerShark

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Guest Big Time Software

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The stugs usually get toasted quickly in face-to-face action against the shermans. i don't remember it being quite so harsh in squad leader...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Get ready for a lot more surprises if your expectations of real life WWII are based on how things worked on ASL smile.gif CM is based on real world data and physics, ASL is based on an abstract and simplified interpretation of real world data and physics. This makes CM inherently more accurate and therefore realistic than ASL. This is not a put down of ASL, but a simple statement of fact. And because CM is factoring in a lot more than ASL, and doing so using real world numbers and physics, you should expect to see a big difference between how ASL and CM play out.

As for your questions about the vehicles... the information is all contained in the unit's detailed information box (select unit and hit Enter). Better yet, pick up some books on armored vehicles (if you don't already have some) and read up on what the vehicles were armed with. CM simulates almost all major variants of Shermans, PzIVs, and StuGs. All armed and armored according to what the real ones were.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The stugs usually get toasted quickly in face-to-face action against the shermans. i don't remember it being quite so harsh in squad leader...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you try to use your StuGs as if they were tanks (i.e. having turrets) you will lose them very quickly if the other side has a clue what to do. The StuG was a great vehicle in ambush or used at long ranges, but in the close quarters of CE it needs to be used very carefully. If you are interested, there are many, many posts on the StuGs vs. Shermans on this BBS.

Steve

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software:

If you try to use your StuGs as if they were tanks (i.e. having turrets) you will lose them very quickly if the other side has a clue what to do. The StuG was a great vehicle in ambush or used at long ranges, but in the close quarters of CE it needs to be used very carefully.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly... the easiest thing to do with the StuGs on CE is find firing positions on the plateaus behind the large hill on the Germans' right. There are a few such raised plains there, and you can sit the assault guns on these plains and point them in the direction of the old church. From there you can wait for the Shermans to get impatient and come looking for you.

My personal favorite tactic against the AI is to keep the bulk of my squad on the wooded hill, sneak the schreck units and the FO up to firing positions on the Ami side and have at it, taking as many shots as possible with the schrecks and plastering either the wheat field or the Amis' wooded hill with arty fire.

Eventually the AI will try to hit my left flank and when they do, the StuGs are waiting to do what they do best... hit armored targets at long range. The last five or six times I've played CE against the AI, I haven't lost a StuG (even with the Allies pumped up). Now against a human player, that's a whole other story biggrin.gif

And in the real game, with uncharted scenarios, it will be a different story as well, although the logic will be the same... find good ambush positions to take advantage of the StuGs strong points.

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You must be sneeky with your Assualt guns in CE or your toast, I smacked a us player around for the first 5 turns then got sloppy (Ewww) I took out the first 4 then that last sherman + desided to open a can of WHooP Ass. Taking out 2 stugs before being perferated by a Shreck from the side and rear.

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