German tanks too flimsy?

[Guest machineman]

In "Steel Inferno" it was mentioned the Germans did this too, if they were too close to do their preferable 'stand off and blast'em from a distance', they would charge in amongst numerically superior Allied tanks and rely on the confusion caused by their aggressive action, and the superior experience of their crews to even up the chances, rather than fight a battle of numbers they would inevitably lose.

There are also accounts of the Russians doing this with their T-34's, and I assume that is where the Germans learned it from.

------------------

"Environment is everything - The Lion may be king of the jungle, but you airlift him to Antartica, and he's just some Penguins bitch" - Dennis Miller

[Paul Lakowski]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by machineman:

In "Steel Inferno" it was mentioned the Germans did this too, if they were too close to do their preferable 'stand off and blast'em from a distance', they would charge in amongst numerically superior Allied tanks and rely on the confusion caused by their aggressive action, and the superior experience of their crews to even up the chances, rather than fight a battle of numbers they would inevitably lose.

There are also accounts of the Russians doing this with their T-34's, and I assume that is where the Germans learned it from.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually this is pre war German doctrine too close with the enemy and settle the battle by shock, and there success in the early part of WW-II shows it worked very well.

[Olle Petersson]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Priest:

1500m is 1.5KM which is over a mile if my math is right. WOW!.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really. One mile is 1,609 m. A tad more than 1.5 km. But 1.5 km is still quite some distance to have LOS. (Just felt the urge to teach )

It can happen though, in the lowlands or from elevated positions. Don't count on spotting anything but trees at that distance in the Ardennes though.

Cheers

Olle

[86smopuim]

I must be smoking crack, cuz time and again I am not getting the same results.

In seperate runs, I tried 10 Panzer IVg vs

10 M4 Sherman, 10 M4ShermanA1, and

10 M4 Jumbo Shermans

In the first two scenarios, ran many times

All the shemans were cold smoked on the first round, every time. 1 Maybe two Panzer losses tops. Versus the Jumbos, well the Panzers didnt fair so well.

I tried 10 King Tigers vs the Jumbos, and

well, The Jumbos were cold smoked first round.

What am I doing Wrong?

Interesting aside:

Try this test, use 'regular' troops on one run, and Elite on the next. What a difference it makes. +70% smokage.

[86smopuim]

Of course, in the "real" world if CM, my Panzers fair much less well. They get .5:1

kill ratio

[86smopuim]

Any other word on this?

[busboy]

Well 86, your test is just fine, I think the problem is you don't fully understand what you're testing.

In a match of M4s and M4A1s vs. PzKw IVs, I'd expect the PzKws to do better (assuming equal experiance.)

Now, Sherman "Jumbos" have MASSIVE amounts of armor piled on them. The 85mm guns on your Mk. IVs are simply not going to kill them in a head to head match.

King Tigers, OTOH, which have MUCH better guns will kill Jumbos (atleast eventually they'll find SOME sweet spot that they'll get through. Probably, it'll be the mantlet.)

At the same time, the jumbos won't touch a King Tiger, as their 75mm guns just can't get through its armor. (120mm of sloping front upper hull, 180mm of slightly sloping turret face, if I recall)

Now, if you keep the skill levels equal, witch you did, you are merely going to effect the time it takes for the superior force to kill the others. I recently did a test (not related to this, but still VERY on topic) of a single T26 Super Pershing with an Elite crew against 8 Mk. IVs and some Whirblebirds for extra targets. The T26 was immobilized but nothing ever killed it, because the Mk. IV ammo just couldn't punch through the armor.

That is what happened in your tests. The Mk IVs can't kill jumbos, and the jimbos can't kill King Tigers

------------------

busboy

CO, 99th Dragons

A Warbirds Squadron

'We will heat you up'

"It is well that war is so terrible, else we would grow too fond of it."

-Robert E. Lee