Code of Conduct needed ? Poll

[Seanachai]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Shaw:

Don't listen to Joe.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thank you for noticing ... it's all I've ever really asked

Tread lightly Fionn, I have many more MORMON WIFE photos! Bwahahahahah!

Joe

Gods, no, not Mormon Wives...I recently hit the one where you posted three in a row and I think I've gone sterile...

And Joe, I don't think anyone's ever really gone over the line in the 'Peng Challenge' thread. My only fear is that sometime the truly ignorant and foolish will show up and decide that they can get away with anything. You and all the recent contributors are truly welcome on that unutterably disreputable thread.

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After witnessing exceptional bravery from his Celtic mercenaries, Alexander the Great called them to him and asked if there was anything they feared. They told him nothing, except that the sky might fall on their heads.

[Joe Shaw]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Gods, no, not Mormon Wives...I recently hit the one where you posted three in a row and I think I've gone sterile...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm misunderstood on the whole issue, I don't enjoy posting those photos, hell I have to look them up. But I do it to stop the tyranny of Professor Doktor Hamster X. So far the "wives" photos seem to be the only weakness he has. If Eathan remains a captive the hamsters will be playing all his games. Remember, "A Captive Eathan is Another Losing Game".

Joe

[Guest tero]

Dear Fionn

>Posting a list of Do's and Don'ts to a forum like this would be like waving a red rag to a bull.

Poeple seem to think that I call for a "purge all nasty language from posts" program or moderator to be used. That is not the case. But the CoC could be on the first page of the board to serve as a reminder. But the main purpose of this post was to raise the question and get some serious input on the subject.

>As a side issue. Is it amusing to anyone else the extent to which individuals seem to imagine weightless polls can effect change? A poll is irrelevant. It has no force of law behind it. Why ask for a poll when it can do no good?

I have seen many posts start "Hi, I'm new. Please do not bite my head off for asking this...." That is why I wanted to poll the members for any similar experinces I have had during my short stay here. That is what a poll is in my dictionary, a show of hands if you like with a few explanatory words.

Some people seem to think that the title runs "Code of Conduct needed ? FLAME". Why does it seem that serious conversation on issues pertaining related but other than game issues is not possible.

>Don't listen to Joe. He LOVES hamsters... and I don't mean in a platonic way..

To all according to their beliefs and preferences.

>Generally we simply use him as a cautionary tale for newbies along the lines of the "bogeyman"... "Watch what you post or you'll end up like Joe Shaw" we say to the terrified screams of newbies who promise to be good... Anything to avoid that sad fate.

What if I refuse to be assimilated unconditionally ? :-D

>( and no tero, don't go feeling persecuted ... I never mentioned you as an ignoramus)...

For some curious reason I do not feel like you did. And if you did I have a notion you would have chosen your words differently.

You seem to command some respect among the members and I can see the reason for that.

I do confess there are lots about the game and its mechanics and underlying code I do not know about. But I also do confess I do not like taking crap from people just because I question openly some of BTS's choices on the implementation of the game. Or because my poor penmanship sometimes make my posts sound like my 2½ years old son when he is talking English with his mouth full.

The game is good but BTS has not to my knowledge been deified or proclaimed sancrosanct by the Vatican, even if some members seem to think both have happened.

>HOWEVER BTS frowns on the "taking a flamefest into a new thread after the old one is closed down" thing you've just done.

David seems to forget about our previous encounter on the "So what's 1.03 fix ?" tread (where I made the mortal error on questioning the BTS choices and among other things called stupidly for an extensive FAQ/topic database to get us newbies up to speed on The Word).

This just to get you up to speed on all the aspect of our amiable relationship.

[Guest tero]

>P.S. CM does model the TGIF-9 Hausfrau. It appears in the "Domestic Campaign" mode.

That vacuum cleaner looking thingie messing up with the power cords all the time the game is running ? Seen that too. VERY dangerous opponent. :-D

[Guest Germanboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tero:

This just to get you up to speed on all the aspect of our amiable relationship.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

tero, why do you think anyone cares? You have used absolutely unacceptable language in that other thread. To then come here and call for a CoC is a bit rich, I find. Your attack on David in that thread was completely unwarranted, and I could not care less about any quarrels you have with him. As I don't care about the private quarrels other members of the board have with each other.

Give it a rest is all I can say. If you have an issue with David, get your own 'I hate David' forum, and there you can do whatever you like. There is no need/use for those kinds of p*ssing contests on this board, and your request for a CoC has already been answered by Steve in the other thread, by closing it down. Maybe you should reflect on whether you want to continue this. You currently have zero credibility with me and I am sure with a lot of other people on the board too. Your personal gripes have no place here.

Ps. Same goes for David.

NB: if you feel attacked by somebody on the board, credit the other readers with the intelligence to figure out whose fault it originally was, and with the lack of interest flame-fests deserve. No need to carry on with stuff like this.

I can see the future,and it involves a padlock.

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Andreas

[This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 08-18-2000).]

[Fionn]

I'm well aware of the various "occasions" you've bumped into eachother.

My simple point was, that as far as I could see, you (tero) behaved badly in the archer thread. Now, David, is dragging it into this thread ( not a good thing).

Simple thing.. I was trying to head off a further flamefest.

I'll bow out of the whole situation now though and let you kill eachother if you wish.

[Guest tero]

>I'm well aware of the various "occasions" you've bumped into eachother.

I did not know that.

>My simple point was, that as far as I could see, you (tero) behaved badly in the archer thread. Now, David, is dragging it into this thread ( not a good thing).

I'm not very proud of the fact that I lost it.

I did genuinely want to start a serious, rational discussion on the subject of conduct on the board but it seems even that is spiraling down to a flamefest. Not my original intention at all.

Rather sadly proves my point really. :-(

>Simple thing.. I was trying to head off a further flamefest.

Where is the emergency brake handle anyway ?

>I'll bow out of the whole situation now though and let you kill eachother if you wish.

I see all the killing I need to see on the screen playing CM.

[Goofy]

When I see someone attack the person in the arguement rather than what the point of the arguement is, I cease hearing them. At that point I believe their view is not as importnat to THEM as being right or should I say the winner! Goofy

[David Aitken]

tero wrote:

> David seems to forget about our previous encounter on the "So what's 1.03 fix ?" tread

You can't be serious. Where did I put those kid gloves...

[Sitting Duck]

Fionn said,

"...Why ask for a poll when it can do no good?"

Isn't asking for a "poll" like saying, "I'd like to discuss this?"

Maybe it has something to do with the American election as someone pointed out. Maybe it's just another way to introduce a topic? It's not so much the 'vote' that's important as it is the discussion. They usually have the effect of generating good discussion and different viewpoints...Not that they have the force of law or anything.

Now a poll about the conduct of the forum itself...

My Vote : Don't change a thing!

This forum is great. You can learn some very fine points about the game, history, physics and especially human nature...and still get a really good laugh most of the time (more often than not). Mormon Wives, Hamsters, Gerbils, Otter's, No Smilies for MrPENG, taunts that are really works of literary art...it's just hysterical.

I do wonder why some posters to this forum seem to preface their comments/questions with "Don't bite my head off, but..."?

[This message has been edited by Sitting Duck (edited 08-18-2000).]

[Hiram Sedai]

Regarding the Pole for Rules of Conduct:

I vote "No".

I believe that we already promised to behave ourselves when we registered and I've not seen any unseemly behavior as of yet. I have seen some vehement discussions/arguements but they were conducted by gentlemen in a respectful discourse. This is my opinion from reading this board for two weeks.

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-Work Hard

-Type Fast

-Save Often

[Fionn]

Sitting Duck ( great nick BTW),

"Isn't asking for a "poll" like saying, "I'd like to discuss this?""

Nope.. Saying "I'd like to discuss this" is saying "I'd like to discuss this."

Asking for a poll is asking for a "vote" with the clear implication that some action should then occur based on the democratic will expressed by respondents. That's my take anyways.

Also, I'm just sick of seeing things like " Poll on what BTS MUST fix in 1.04>" etc so that feeds into my "Oh God, not another poll" reaction

And as to wondering why some posters begin their posts with " "Don't bite my head off, but..."? "

Simple, I've noted that the use of said phrase or one extremely similar is directly proportional to the likelihood of said poster to flame anyone answering the question following the but .

If you don't believe me have a look and check this out . The very people who generally say "I don't want to be flamed but.." are the same ones who will flame the instant anyone doesn't give them an Oxford Dictionary answer.

[Sitting Duck]

Fionn said -

"Sitting Duck ( great nick BTW)..."

When I registered for the forum, I had just seen an AFLAC TV commercial on CNBC (it uses a duck). Talk about funny! I wish I could show you. Come to think of it...maybe I can!

<a href=http://www.adcritic.com/search/?query=aflac>http://www.adcritic.com/search/?query=aflac</a>

AFLAC's got another duck commercial coming out shortly...perhaps I'm just too easily amused? No. Don't answer that one.

Fionn said -

"Asking for a poll is asking for a 'vote' with the clear implication that some action should then occur based on the democratic will expressed by respondents. That's my take anyways.

"Also, I'm just sick of seeing things like 'Poll on what BTS MUST fix in 1.04>'"

Yeah, I guess that's the implication...I've been on this forum a much shorter time than you and only seen a couple of "polls." I used the Search function ( ) and found about 20 "polls." Looked about even split...many looked to be just introductions (Where did you first hear about CM? (Poll)) <a href=http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/008787.html>http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/008787.html</a>

Fionn said,

"...The very people who generally say 'I don't want to be flamed but..' are the same ones who will flame the instant anyone doesn't give them an Oxford Dictionary answer."

Yah...I'll have to take your word for that one! As I said, I haven't been here long and THAT kind of search would take too long.

quack!

[Philistine]

re: Polls.

When I see a "poll" question, to me it signifies someone saying "what do you all think about x" (generally with their interpretation in the first one).

I don't think it's necessarily an implicit directive to BTS to make whatever change happens to get some arbitrary percentage of responses.

Maybe this is just my oversensitiveness to the connotations I personally (i.e. I haven't actually looked up the words, which I'm sure share some definitions) put on the terms "vote" and "poll." To me, "poll" generally connotes a non-binding case (e.g. opinion polls) (I fully realize there are definitions of poll that relate to binding votes) while "vote" connotes an actual binding decision.

I could see the argument against the use if the word "vote" was used. Of course, YMMV.

In any event, most of the posters to these threads seem to recognize that any "consensus" reached will not necessarily be implemented by BTS for a variety of reasons, ranging from imposibility to lack of interest. From what I've seen, only a very small minority of people have a problem understanding this issue. However, the poll threads serve (IMHO) a pretty good resource as a "one-stop" viewing of players' viewing of certain game features and/or requests.

BTS has brought this on themselves by being so willing to consider changes/additions and opinions from posters in the past. (And what a refreshing change that is from most games). I think most of the posters see this as their way to let BTS know what they, in particular, would like.

With regard to the code of conduct--As I said before, I don't think we need another. Most people follow the one we have, in principal at least. Presently, de minimus "infractions" are ignored, minor infractions are limited and/or appropriately dealt with by forum members, major infractions result in a closed thread and extraordinary ifractions result in banning.

Seems to work pretty well.

--Philistine

[This message has been edited by Philistine (edited 08-18-2000).]

[David Aitken]

Philistine wrote:

> most of the posters to these threads seem to recognize that any "consensus" reached will not necessarily be implemented

From what I've seen, it's as much one way as the other. Some people know it's just an opinion poll, whereas others, justifiably, assume that this is the place to post their serious requests, not understanding that a strong argument needs to be made before their request becomes significant.

> BTS has brought this on themselves by being so willing to consider changes/additions and opinions from posters in the past.

In the past, most of the people on the forum were extremely knowledgeable in military history. Since the release of the game, the forum has filled will less learned and less fanatical people (no bad thing, but a fact nevertheless).

BTS have done the right thing by listening, but this fact should not be abused. There are too many people who seem to think that, just because BTS are listening, they suddenly have the right to dictate the development of the game.

David

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There's a splinter in your eye, and it reads REACT

[Fionn]

Ah Sitting Duck...

I remember the time BEFORE the forum.. A time when we had a black background and none of this fancy UBB coding. We had it tough back then...

We had to etch smileys into rock whenever we wanted to let people know we were joking... Aye, and we had to provide our own electricity by cycling as fast as we could to turn a generator WHILE we typed.

None of that nancy boy "mains electricity" you yung 'uns are used to these days.

Seriously... There's guys who've been here 3 YEARS . Hell, some have been around since BCM.. Beforce Combat Mission...

David,

Amen. Very, VERY much agree with what you said.

[Philistine]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken:

From what I've seen, it's as much one way as the other. Some people know it's just an opinion poll, whereas others, justifiably, assume that this is the place to post their serious requests, not understanding that a strong argument needs to be made before their request becomes significant.

{snip}

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe I'm one of the "others" but I tend to collapse the two different types you mention. I think it's OK to offer your opinion on the poll (yes/no or whatever) and then explain if you would like to see changes. I agree that those who demand changes regardless of feasibility or BTS' interest aren't doing their side a favor, but IMHO these kinds of posts are decidedly in the minority.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

{snip}

BTS have done the right thing by listening, but this fact should not be abused. There are too many people who seem to think that, just because BTS are listening, they suddenly have the right to dictate the development of the game.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, I don't see this a happening that much (YMMV). Most of the responsible posters put out their request and argument in favor of it in a reasonable manner, more or less coherently (depending on the poster).

BTS, when they respond, generally do so in one of three ways:

(1) Good idea, we'll change it;

(2) Interesting. We'll think about it; or

(3) Not going to happen--either because unfeasible (e.g. 10 men graphics of squad); not realistic, or just it doesn't follow their ideal for the game (e.g. no real time).

Most of the discussion revolves around number 2 issues and is fairly respectful.

I agree that BTS shouldn't have to put up with "this game sucks because it doesn't have {insert my pet feature} in it." But I just don't see much of that.

There are a lot of ideas on the board. Some are very good. Some are stupendously bad. Some are minor, some are major and some don't quite fit with BTS' vision of the game. My view is, a healthy discussion of suggestions can only help BTS in making sequels.

Just my $.02.

--Philistine

Edit--"Must...learn...how to... properly...use...UBB Code."

[This message has been edited by Philistine (edited 08-18-2000).]

[Guest ACTOR]

Pours gas on self...

It's only a game folks!

I have read this thread and I would have to say that this board as a whole is very friendly. Even when I have made mistakes on posts and said things that weren't quite right, everyone has been quick to point out the mistakes...in a friendly sort of way. Maybe a short response but typically not rude. I have seen some responses that could be taken as being arrogant or rude, but even then most times it wasn't meant that way.