Knaust Posted February 5, 2000 Share Posted February 5, 2000 Well...in my game with Maragoudakis in Chance Encounter his remaining four tanks got a lot of hits and didnt blow up (till now!)...the ShermanW+ absorbed 3 schrecks hits! Now..apart from their kryptonized armour what happens to a tank whose crew suffered losses? Has it driving failures,LOS problems (apart from getting bottomed up), reduced rate of fire,and so on....? I performed a research on this topic but I didnt find anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARCHANGEL Posted February 5, 2000 Share Posted February 5, 2000 Assuming you are talking about the translation of the real world to the CM world, it would depend upon which crew member was hurt and how badly. All tankers (like all Infantrymen) are cross trained, so a wounded driver could be replaced by the loader etc. This would take a few minutes time but it all depends, obviously, on the extent of the wounds etc. I once had the opportunity to discuss tank combat with some guys who had actually been tankers in WW2 and Korea. They told me that the metallic pinging of small arms bouncing off a tank was irritating...that the explosions on the outer shell of a tank were louder and startling and caused them to try to determine the threat very quickly before another Panzerfaust or PzScherk round hit them and did real damage to the track, the tube or even penetrated the hull. Regarding CM, I too wondered when a tank crew got out of a damaged veh. and showed one wounded what the story was. In Reisburg (just the other day) I had an M4 destroyed by a Schreck at very close range...(I didnt see them!!!) and another M4 make a very rapid and hasty retrograde movement when it was hit but undamaged by a Panzerfaust. On the other hand, I have had two US bazooka's shooting (a crossfire) at one 88 and it took six shots form one and three from another before the 88 was abandoned. "Direct" hits aren't always what they appear to be. Another time I had the track hit on an M4 which immobilized it and the tube damaged on another M4 which caused me to move it out of range of AT weapons so I could use the .50 cal later (it got hit by the 88 as I moved it to"safety"...<g>) Driving failures? reduced rate of fire? yup!!! looks like it is in there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 5, 2000 Share Posted February 5, 2000 Aww hell that's nothing... I had a Tiger in the SPR scenario survive SEVEN direct bazooka hits. It was very funny to watch them for the remaining 20 or so minutes of the game because, and I don't think this is directly programmed in but it was a cool side-effect I guess, the Tiger had NO CASUALTIES and it's main gun worked fine BUT it kept hiding behind buildings, popping out to fire its MG and then reversing back behind the buildings again while another Tiger beside it and a Marder II or III simply sat out in the open firing away. It really felt like the crew was scared ****less of being hit again . I don't think that fear etc is programmed in but I think this was a side-effect of the fact the Strategic AI was ordering the Tiger into the open but the TacAI was saying "HEY, but when I move out to fire I move into range of the zooks... Better hide again". Since the other tanks hadn't been fired on by the zooks their self-preservation instincts hadn't been this activated. Fun to watch. Just today I saw an ELITE M4 76 W crew abandon their tank even though it wasn't badly damaged.. It was a really good example of self-preservation though.. The Sherman passed in front of a Volksgrenadier platoon at about 50 metres. It was hit by a faust but not damaged then, 2 seconds later it was hit by a schreck in its side hull. The Sherman was immobilised and veered off the road as the guy behind it began reversing into a dip in the ground in which he could get turret down. Anyways, the Sherman veered off the road, showed itself as being immobilised and then, a split-second later the crew bailed out despite not having suffered a single casualty. Why did they bail out? Simple, they knew that the very next round WOULD blow the tank up so, even though it was only immobilised, they decided to bail out because they actively evaluated the threat environment around them and figured out they would die if they didn't. Of course, they bailed out less than 30 metres from an entire platoon armed with SMGs and MG42s. They lasted slightly over 2 seconds hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted February 5, 2000 Share Posted February 5, 2000 Crews were often faced with lose lose situations like what Fionn mentioned. Stay in the tank, die. Exit the tank, die. Damn that alone makes me glad I was never a tanker in WWII! In general a tank crew will not abandon ship unless two critical systems have been damaged. So a tank that is immobilized ONLY will likely stay in action, but one that has been immobilized AND lacks a main gun will nearly always be abandoned. The trick is to keep your tanks out of effective small arms range. Once you are within it you not only increase the chance of a PAT hit, but also decrease the chance of the crew surviving if it is obligated to bail out. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 5, 2000 Share Posted February 5, 2000 Aye, in the bocage terrain I think losses to tank crews will be especially high. In a bocage game Bil lost 4 tanks to fausts and I wiped out all of the crew of 3 of those tanks to the last man. In fact the only reason I missed the crew of the 4th tank was cause he had them HIDE and I had to vacate the area quickly cause he had two VERY angry tanks nearby pumping HE into the woods I was hiding in LOL . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Zeares Posted February 6, 2000 Share Posted February 6, 2000 Heh, this thread reminds me of one of the more amusing incidents I've witnessed in the demo. It was during my first "Reisburg" scenario. The AI lost all but one of its Shermans very quickly (they tried to go right up the road. Oops. ) The lone surviving tank parked itself in a spot that was out of LOS from either 88, buttoned up, and proceeded to shell the heck out of my Volksgrenadiers in the first row of buildings. It didn't move again the entire game, although it was undamaged. Guess seeing what happened to their buddies had spooked the crew. Anyway, I decided to try to sneak a 'Schreck crew around its flank to take it out. Well, I forgot to tell them to "sneak," so they got spotted at about 101 meters in some scattered trees. The Sherman opened up with its coax, and the 'Schreck team stopped and started shooting back. Very ineffectively at first. The Sherman's crew seemed content to fire the occasional burst of coax until the 'Schreck team actually scored a lower hull hit. The Sherman's next shot was from the main gun. One more, and the 'Schrek team broke and ran. Heh, I can just imagine the kinds of things the tank crew was saying. But I won't type those words on a family forum. -- Mike Zeares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAEZ Posted February 6, 2000 Share Posted February 6, 2000 I was playing LD once, and as the germans I destroyed the 4 Shermans early in the game, the 5th US tank stayed behind the north-west hill till the last couple of turns, when i finally got to the last vp, it showed up. It had no damaged but after loosing all it's companios,It was scare sH....lss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakko Ichiu Posted February 6, 2000 Share Posted February 6, 2000 I have to admit that I was rather nonplussed when one of my StuGs fired on a Sherman 75+ and scored a "Front Turret Penetration at Weak Point" that didn't result in any apparent damage to the target. This was in Chance Encounter, BTW. Ethan ------------------ Das also war des Pudels Kern! -- Goethe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 6, 2000 Share Posted February 6, 2000 Probably you killed one of the crew in the Sherman with that but the penetration wasn't enough to knock out the entire tank. Happened a lot in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakko Ichiu Posted February 6, 2000 Share Posted February 6, 2000 Fair enough, but from the text of the damage assessment, I would have thought I'd popped the turret clean off. Ethan ------------------ Das also war des Pudels Kern! -- Goethe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iggi Posted February 7, 2000 Share Posted February 7, 2000 Knaust, You forgot to mention a very important detail. I had at least three tanks taking fire from you while my tanks were on hills and your stugg was on the low ground. Now I'm not sure which tank you are talking about but clearly your shots are hitting my armor from a less effective angle. Although the high ground helps now that you only have one stugg left, getting there cost me shermans. PS My medics are working full time. PPS Did my mortar get your stugg's commander? John Maragoudakis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iggi Posted February 7, 2000 Share Posted February 7, 2000 Your commander was exposed and the stugg received 2 direct mortar hits 3 seconds apart. After a third near miss mortar explosion, your commander buttuned up. He must be dead. How can an exposed commander survive two direct top hits from a mortar? [This message has been edited by iggi (edited 02-07-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knaust Posted February 8, 2000 Author Share Posted February 8, 2000 LOL iggi....I asked only to know what happens to a tank that suffers penetration hits....and anyway I liked the kryptonite armour! My commander survived those mortar direct hits...coz hes NemboKid..you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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