IntelWeenie Posted July 12, 2000 Share Posted July 12, 2000 Tried searching on this all morning, else I would have posted it earlier... It seems like an inordniate number of open top AFVs (mine and the computer's) are getting KO'ed or abandoned by small arms/MG (non-.50cal) fire. I have a small scenario I've been playing with that has a Marder that is lost 50-60% of the time to infantry fire from over 300m away with no height advantage, once even while buttoned up (heaviest fire received is from a Vickers MG). I would think that the frontal armor of nearly any tank/SP/HT in the game would be proof vs. rifle caliber fire, at least while buttoned. That's part of what a splinter shield is supposed to do, after all. I can sorta understand if it was unbuttoned... Anyone else noticed this? ------------------ "Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paullus Posted July 12, 2000 Share Posted July 12, 2000 I too have seen a disproportionate number of open-topped AFV's abandoned in the face of any enemy fire (whether from me or the AI). I have even seen some vehicles abandoned without taking any fire at all (they just moved close to some of my troops). I know they are vulnerable, but I would hesitate in leaving a perfectly operable vehicle to jump on to the battlefield myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 12, 2000 Share Posted July 12, 2000 You think thats bad? I was playing a scenario and I received a Hummel as reinforcements and an enemy plane flew by and the crew bailed!!! It was rather funny though. The Hummel was out of LOS of pretty much every enemy unit and wasn't receiving fire. Interesting... ------------------ And if we abandon any platform, I can assure you it will not be the Macintosh. -Steve My website! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 I would think that an OT AFV, especially if buttoned, would be as immune to small arms fire that does not have a height advantage is a regular AFV. Of course, that does not include someone tossing a grenade inside! One thing to remember though is that the term "OT" does encompass quite a bit. I have no idea of it is modelled or not (I would hope so!), but a M10 TD is OT, but the crew compartment is surrounded by armor. The Marder, IIRC, on the other hand, has a completely open crew compartment to the rear, hence could not really be "buttoned" to fire coming from behind the vehicle. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittmann Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 Open tops being buttoned has had me a little confused ,since only the driver gets additional protection when vision hatches are shut. The passengers ,however are in a conspicuous(sp?) place and will draw fire. This will generate combat stress,and lead to routing. Also bullets follow a curved path due to gravity, so decent troops could observe tracer, and be able to get hot lead zinging around the passenger compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IntelWeenie: I have a small scenario I've been playing with that has a Marder that is lost 50-60% of the time to infantry fire from over 300m away with no height advantage, once even while buttoned up (heaviest fire received is from a Vickers MG).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Marder II or Marder III? The Marder III's lower front hull is only 6mm thick. Even with the 28deg slope, Vickers MG bullets will go right through that. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 Wittmann, I think it means that nobody is sticking their head out anymore, leading to a decrease in spotting ability and inability to use some weapons, e.g. the .50 on the TDs or the MG on the German HTs. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 Crew experience seems to have a lot to do with it too. In one scenario I had MG Jeeps with veteran crews and they were bold as punch. They would roll right up to the enemy and hammer the suckers. In another scenario the MG Jeeps had regular crews that would bail out as soon as they realized there was an unsuppressed enemy unit anywhere in the neighborhood, even if they had received no fire. Chicken**** m%&$#*$@%$#&s. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfinder Posted July 13, 2000 Share Posted July 13, 2000 IMHO, the only AFV's that would be "invulnerable" to small arms fire would be tanks... those open topped AT vehicles and half-tracks had very thin armor....30 & 50 cal would do a damn damn on it.. just my 2cents based on 24 years of military experience ------------------ unca pathy will show ya the path, if only he could find it himself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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