Automatic clear weather Allied air superioriy

[Tiger]

I was reading a book on WWII and thought I'd toss this out here to be chewed over:

In CMBO during clear weather give the Allies automatic fighter-bombers. It would be more realistic and give the German player a good reason to take some AA units in clear weather (or not if you're feeling lucky). As I play the Germans myself more often than Allied, I don't think it would be too big an advantage as fighter-bombers effectiveness is now anyways

thoughts?

-john

[Guest ACTOR]

Given the fact that every book I have read on WWII talks about the Allied air superiority during good weather, I like the idea.

I would also agree that their effectiveness may not add much for the Allies.

[Olle Petersson]

I, for one, do not like the idea.

Mainly because it's not historical to have air support so close to the front all the time. The air strikes were more directed at support columns and targets behind the lines.

German air defence in combat divisions were normaly assigned to defend the regimental and up HQs, that are not present in CM.

What could be added to the game is an increased chance of Allied aircraft arriving at all once purchased...

Having a FAC would also be nice.

Cheers

Olle

[PeterNZer]

Gotta say, this is a pretty dumb idea. Aircraft didn't often get invovled in ongoing battles, they attacked before and after.

Also, the game is balanced now, adding allied air support throws the balance. Why do you want to do that?

You say air support wouldn't give a big advantage, but they can literally swing the battle, (ie. take out a couple of tanks and harrass infantry).

If you really want to 'simulate' this factor, just take the allies, set up a game and tell the other player you're going to be 'allies +10%' and pick up fighter support.

If we start trying to add everything to the battle better throw in mad peasants holding their house against any intruders, random partisans, gas explosions in town.. hell, the list is ENDLESS!

Don't mean to sound flamey.. but what is the point of adding this feature?

PeterNZ

------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Hamsters Wrote:

PeterNZ: He hasn’t proven to be particularly valiant but I think he’d make a good doorman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Jarmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Olle Petersson:

What could be added to the game is an increased chance of Allied aircraft arriving at all once purchased...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But if you'd want to keep the game balanced, you'd then have to make

german bombers cheaper than allied. That'd be kinda strange.

[Olle Petersson]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo:

But if you'd want to keep the game balanced, you'd then have to make

german bombers cheaper than allied. That'd be kinda strange.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't make them cheaper, make them more accurate...

The American use of FBs were many-on-many, that's several aircraft attacking massed troops, since they rarely hit the spot aimed at. The MGs used by American aircraft weren't very useful against armour either.

German aircraft used precision (dive) bombing and had ATGs to take out enemy armour. Here it was one-on-one.

British aircraft were somewhere in between.

Bottom line is that;

American aircraft were rarely alone, but should be purchased in packets of half a dozen or more.

German FBs are quite good as they are.

British I don't know about, but flights of three seems reasonable.

Forcing the Allied player to spend 1,000 pts for British FBs or ~1,700 pts for US FBs wouldn't be much of an advantage...

Cheers

Olle

[109 Gustav]

Just because the weather was clear didn't mean the fighter bombers would be allied. Granted, they did have air supuriority over Europe. What they didn't have was local air supurority over every little piece of the battlefield, meaning that the Germans could come in with a squadron of fighter bombers and control that area until allied fighters showed up. One or two squadrons could easily control a small section of the battlefield for a day or so.

------------------

Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat.

But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown.

And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing.

-Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska

[jake bullet]

look at the facts after D Day the british

hawker typhoon was the most efective close support aircraft and yes it packed a heavy punch mounting 4 hispano 20mm cannon and was also able to carry rockets/bombs

QUOTE

Bottom line is that;

American aircraft were rarely alone, but should be purchased in packets of half a dozen or more.

German FBs are quite good as they are.

British I don't know about, but flights of three seems reasonablery rockets and bombs

[Guest Rex_Bellator]

Coincidentally I have just spotted this review of a new book 'Air power at the Battlefront'. Check out http://www.thegamers.net/militarybookreview.html

It seems that statistcally Air Power post Normandy was a very ineffective way of knocking out tanks, with rockets only achiving a hit 0.5 percent of the time. This meant that to have even a 50% chance of knocking out a tank you'd need 18 Typhoons/Thunderbolts. Apparently cannon and machine guns were a waste of time. See what you think at the review.

[This message has been edited by Rex_Bellator (edited 10-12-2000).]

[PeterNZer]

This idea gets worse and worse!

There's no way you can define German aircraft as 'precision' in comparison to the Allied aircraft. The Germans had ONE divebomber IIRC, the famed Stuka, (and it was only good for divebombing, flew like a piece of sh*t in all other respects), the rest of its aircraft were roughly speaking similar to the Allied craft, (ie. light fighters like the bf109 equivelant to the allies Spit and F4, heavy fighters like the FW190 equivelant to P51 and Mustang).

If you wanted to start 'modeling' this further, you'd have to make the Axis craft increasingly poorly flown, since the Germans didn't tend to rotate their good pilots back to training camps, thus they would fly for ages, then die, and all their experience was lost, (US learnt to keep the good oens alive so they could pass on their experience).

As for various accuracy rates, it's kinda irrelevant, they are already modeled since fighter-bombers are highly unpredictable in game.

Hey, I have an idea, why don't we just make FB's cost points, and people can buy them if they want! And if they don't, they don't have to, clever huh?

PeterNZ

[Guest Germanboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Olle Petersson:

Bottom line is that;

American aircraft were rarely alone, but should be purchased in packets of half a dozen or more.

German FBs are quite good as they are.

British I don't know about, but flights of three seems reasonable.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A neat thought that unfortunately bears only passing resemblance to reality. The dive-bombing was over by the time of Normandy, German FBs were FW190 or Me 109s. All Allied accounts I have read about German FBs in action take place behind the front-line, and damage wass very limited if there was any at all. In Normandy the Luftwaffe had to content itself with bombing the bridgehead at night. After Le Havre, the AA regiment of the 49th UK Infantry Division (and the others as well I believe) was issued ground sights, b/c they simply were not needed as AA gunners.

------------------

Andreas