TO&E of US battalion support trains

[Scout_42MDP]

I dig the canadian scenarios mostly because of all the support troops included, but i would much prefer the americans. Anybody happen to know what kind and how many support vehicles to expect supporting a us armor/mech battalion? I'd be curious for Marine OOB's as well.

[Coyote]

Originally posted by DS CavScout:

Anybody happen to know what kind and how many support vehicles to expect supporting a us armor/mech battalion?

The short answer is, it varies. For one look at the long answer go to: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/army/unit/toe/17376F100.htm.

Warning: Actual TOEs are very tricky to read, they show modifications and shortages as well as full authorized strength. As an example, look at the line showing 4x 4.2" mortars, the next line subtracts them, the next line adds 120mm mortars. It's even harder with trucks because DoD often assumes that two 2.5 ton trucks will haul the same bulk cargo as one 5 ton.

Enjoy,

Coyote

[minmax]

Thanks big help for ops where I gotta defend, set up supply point and then fight my way to the East.

BTW, Marine TO&E is very different when I find the site with the link I will pass it on. Usually a MEU only takes its organic Corpsman relying on the afloat resources. Another interesting bit of trivia only a MEF rates a Chaplain, so if you buy it on in a MEB or MEU your soul is toast, hee hee hee.

[MajorH TacOps Developer]

I can't provide you with a reference but I am confident that a deployed MEU will have a doctor and a chaplain. I suspect that they come from FSSG.

[minmax]

Major your right to the point that a MEU uses the ship's or amphib groups doc. The chaplain belongs to the ship or amphib group but I do hear that both will make house calls.

a MEB does have a doc b/c the units task one from the organic HQ base

The Chaplain is a weird one the ACE rates one because there is one per group but GCE does not for some reason.

The FMs that I have are outdated on TO&E the only thing I have curent is a MEU SOC which is a horse of a different color. I got a bud over at Plans and Means I think I will ask him to send me some newer stuff.

[pmaidhof]

Both the MEU and BLT will have both a Bn Chaplain and Bn Medical Officer repectively. I cannot speak authoritatively on the MSSG and Composite Squadron but I'd be will to wager they also bring along their own Chaplain and MO.

[Redwolf]

Speaking of supply trains:

I would like to learn some basic parameters of resupply, especially short-term, i.e. during an ongoing operation.

An example question would be what kind of resupply train a 155mm artillery uses. How many trucks, how many men, how many shells the trucks pack.

Any idea where I could learn about this? I promised good use of the info in a CPX

[Scout_42MDP]

I looked over the to&e page pretty thoroughly (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/army/unit/toe/17376F100.htm)and I am pretty surprised by it. It's been a long time since I read real "military speak" from FM's, but it appears alot has changed. It appears that maintenence, supply trucks and recovery vehicles are now brigade level assets.

I left the army in '92 and remember alot, but not specific #'s of different types of vehicles.

The actual TOC vehicles are listed in that to&e, but from motorpool guard in Germany, I recall ALOT of HEMET's. Both fuel carriers and ammo/cargo carriers. Also all the mechanics were part of the HHC, divided into sections to support each of the line companies. They all had m113's, trucks with .50 cals, or M88 recovery vehicles to ride in. All of that, apparently, is no longer part of the HHC.

Throw in the scouts ditchin Bradleys for HMMWV's and the mortars swapin four deuse for 120MM's, I hardly recognize it :/

I hate change.

[JonS]

Originally posted by redwolf:

An example question would be what kind of resupply train a 155mm artillery uses. How many trucks, how many men, how many shells the trucks pack.

Working with some basic numbers and guesses:

1) a single HEMTT can carry about 150 x 155mm rounds (22,000lb max load on the truck, approx 150lb per round incl proj, cart case, charges, fuzes, and dunnage)

2) this is probably (I can't find the max stowage for an M109, but I'm guessing at about 60-70 rounds) about two first-lines for a M109.

3) a battery (there are 4 guns in a US bty right?) would require 2 trucks, and thus a bn would require 6 trucks per refil. A safer bet would be 1 x HEMTT per M109, so 12 trucks for the bn. The total number of trucks required depends on how fast the guns are burning ammo, and how far away the resupply point is (you can do the maths for that as it is scenario dependant)

4) the trucks come with HIAB cranes, so assuming that the trucks can get to where the guns are located, not too much manpower would be required, other than getting the rounds into the veh itself, and the M109 crew should be able to do that.

5) Figure on about 20-30 mins to fully bomb up an empty M109. BUT, the gun should be able to continue to fire while being bombed up, though both activities will be somewhat degraded.

As a real-life example, IIRC during GWI each British MLRS regt (18 launchers) was supported by a regt of trucks. But then again, MLRS rocket pods are pretty bulky affairs.

Regards

JonS

Edit: BTW, all this is probably covered in far better detail in one of the FMs included in TacOps 4, or in the Military Reference Library, or Appendix D of the User Guide.

After looking at Appendix D I se that each M109 is mated with it's own M992 to provide ammo re-sup on the fly. The trucks would resup the M992 at a secure spot, rather than the M109 itself, and it looks like the M992 carries 72 rounds.

[ July 10, 2003, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: JonS ]

[JonS]

While looking for something else I found this pictogram of a US M119 bty, which shows the resupply trains.

Regards

JonS