Barbarossa Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 If I'm not mistaken, we are experiencing a several week delay in the release of CM because of some unforeseen problems with the printing of the manual at the printers. I am just curious as to why the manual could not have been simply included on the CM CDROM and customers could have just printed the manual on their own printers at home like the Gold Demo instructions. Just curious. Barbarossa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanE Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 I, for one, am thankful that I will not have to print out 180 pages of manual. Plus, I need a good manual when I am plotting strategy in the "War Room". ------------------ Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 Barbarossa, With all due respect this was covered before. Almost everyone on this board. Hell, Almost everyone worldwide hates an on-line manuel. Just a Cheep way for a company to save some bucks. I could not stand: A)to sit down and read 170+ pages on-line. And It would take forever for most people to print out 170+ pages on a home printer. I hate getting a small online manuel. most game manuels only run 30-40 pages top. 170+ is like a novel. Lorak ------------------ http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/combatmissionclub Lorak's FTX for CM <--Proud member of the Combat Mission Webring [This message has been edited by Lorak (edited 06-07-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeydz Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 I'm sure that a minor factor was also pirating... Sure all the pirates would have to do is scan the sucker and make some type doc file out of it, but why help the scum in any way.... Biggest thing is that a printed manual is so much better in my opinion. I can understand a file based manual for A. a simple game, B. freeware/shareware stuff. or C. online distribution only software. But with a game with this much depth, they have to have a printed manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armorbuff Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Barbarossa: If I'm not mistaken, we are experiencing a several week delay in the release of CM because of some unforeseen problems with the printing of the manual at the printers. Barbarossa<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ALL RIGHT THATS IT!!! Some of you people are starting to REALLy Piss me OFF!!! Theres no "Several week Delay"!!! Its a coupla weeks at most!! Why dont you stop your damn whining and wait for it like everyone else??? Like the BTS folks intentionally delayed it, yeah right. They did it just to piss you off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 LOL! Uh-Oh! looks like armorbuff is starting to sound like me. Quick! Jump his ass! -------------- "The greatest risk.....is not taking one." [This message has been edited by Maximus (edited 06-07-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarossa Posted June 8, 2000 Author Share Posted June 8, 2000 armorbuff: I'm sorry that I have upset you so. I was simply asking a general question. It sounds to me that you're more stressed out about the release of CM than I am. I have been waiting around a year for this game and can certainly wait a "coupla" or "several" more weeks for this soon to be wargaming classic. Barbarossa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 Ya Barb, I agree, that was kind of a prozac moment there armourbuff. I think that since I have been following this game(OCT 99) that this is just a small setback. I for one could have cared less about this game comming with a manual, a box, or a graphical CD. All I care is that it installs and plays as good as it does. But this manual may be memorized by many in the war room, and 180 pages does seem to have better reading potential than my subscriptions to gaming magazines and the Sports illustrated that never seems to stop comming to my mailbox. Also of note is that "Pirates" wont care if there is a manual or not, so I really dont see the big deal with "Online manuals" anyway. I think I may scan it up to my computer and view it when I am bored, and maybe add my own stuff to it. Just the text though. I know I am going to keep score of every PBEM and game I play anyway and put it on my site. Will give me some motivation to keep the website going strong, even if it is an ugly mess. Ray ------------------ When asked, "How many moves do you see ahead?", CAPABLANCA replied: "One move - the best one." MantaRays 5 Pages Hardcore Gamers Daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 Armorbuff, while I understand and agree with you point point (i.e. trying to snuff out a baseless rummor), I ask you to tone it down in the future. Barbarossa didn't mean anything evil in his post. Even if he had, I can deal with it just fine The actual delay was about 3 days. Would have been 2, but the problem happened over the long weekend and that tagged an extra one on. We have printed up 3 manuals ourselves and many more CD duplication runs. I can tell you for sure that we anticipated the delays because something always goes wrong. Sometimes it is our fault (i.e. incorrect format for something), sometimes it is the printer's fault (i.e. not seeing our FedEx on his desk for 2 days), other times it is nobody's fault really (i.e. the one day delay because of the Holiday). The reasons for not having a PDF were addressed very well above. Piracy is a huge concern, as is the fact that 98% of our customers would send us hate mail if we didn't have a printed manual Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 Ray, While we can't stop people from duplicating the CD, there is no reason we should also give the pirate easy access to the extensive documentation to play it. There is also a sound theory about piracy, and that is the higher you make the initial barrier to temptation, the less chance a potential customer will pirate, thereby dennying you a sale. If the barrier is low, then you will indeed lose sales, no question about it. The theory also goes that those that really work at pirating the software most likely wouldn't buy it anyway, so although it is infuriating and morally wrong (i.e. it is stealing), the fiscal damage is not as evident. The problem is finding the right barrier height. If you make using the product too much of a pain in the ass you will in fact lose sales, either because would be customers find a way to pirate or simply don't use it at all. So there is a balance, and we think we have it. Not having a PDF version of the manual is a part of the balance. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarossa Posted June 8, 2000 Author Share Posted June 8, 2000 Steve, thank you for your clarification related to piracy. I had not even considered that point and I understand completely now. Lorak also made a good point about printing the manual being a chore. I was not trying to impune anyone with my inquiry nor start a baseless rumor. I thought I saw on this board, a post that if read between the lines one might construe to be a "several" week delay caused by the manual printing problem. That is why in my original post I qualified my statement with "If I'm not mistaken". Obviously I was mistaken. I was just curious as to why. You guys at BTS are to be congratulated on an outstanding game as well as support that is beyond anything I could ever hope for. By the way, the new explosions in the soon to be released patch look great. Keep up the great work guys. Barbarossa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 Thanks! I think I figured out what you read. I have said a few times that it takes a couple of weeks from the time we start the process of printing until it comes back to our warehouse. I would have also mentioned that problems generally crop up and cause delays. I think you might have just fused the two together and come up with a couple of weeks delay No harm done at all, so no worries! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TargetDrone Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 Ohwell.. piracy... i guess nearly everyone now has a toaster in his computer... but heck... i guess, good software (and i consider CM a good software indeed) does not deserve to be copied... i mean, the price isnt that high, and what you get for it is worth every single penny... now, speaking of bariers BTS.... please do us all a favour... there are various copy protections softwaresollutions out there for making the data on your cd saver... hmm well... let me guess that 99% of this software will at maximum cause the pirates a pityingly smile... but can be a real pain for your customers (i will never forget when i recieved jagged alliance 2... german version.. the game can be debated... but .. if my original cd isn't recognized as original, and i have to download a patch done by hackers to be initially able to play, im done with the company and product... btw, that protetction was named laser-lock...) what i wanted to say is, that you can't really prevent the comercial software pirates, who run big repro shops just for this one purpose, from pirating your software (i guess you have to wait for the police to do it.. like it happened over heere in austria some weeks ago where a full truckload of copies was encountered) but eventually you could spoil the fun for many of your customers if they cant use your software until you release a patch that actually deactivates the protection... (dont laugh people.. was done by topware in the JA2 issue) so, i will keep telling people who ask me to make a copy for them to buy the original if they want to have a game...(after all, you should be supported, and financially enabled to continue your work... we are all waiting for further patches and for CM2...) I normally DO make a personal copy (which is legal over here, as long as it is what it is... a backup copy) which i use for play, while the original is stored securely in the basement... (it happened to me once that i accidently destroyed an original cd... and boy , it only causes problems to get an replacement.) Hope you are fine with that... now, i have talked enough i guess .. (hell, im already a member , i don't need to post so often but i cant help, i have a loose mouth) maybe finally a statement: People, if you like CM, BUY IT! Don't go and buy that piece of art of some guy whoe promises to sell it to you half of the retail price... at least, if you really like the game, you should support BTS so that they can continue their good work... *applauses to Charles and Steve* oh.. and maybe some smiles for mrPeng! ------------------ TargetDrone who has a heart for smilies and will defend their rights .... even if the cost is bloody.... (reading before would save editing afterwards) [This message has been edited by TargetDrone (edited 06-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armorbuff Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Barbarossa: armorbuff: I'm sorry that I have upset you so. I was simply asking a general question. It sounds to me that you're more stressed out about the release of CM than I am. I have been waiting around a year for this game and can certainly wait a "coupla" or "several" more weeks ... Barbarossa <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No you didnt upset me. These darn message boards always make people sound exagerated one way or the other. I have been awaiting the game about a year also.Am I more stressed than you about it? Probably. Do I need prozac? Maybe. Got some? Anyways looks like Steve has straightened out everyone on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armorbuff Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: Armorbuff, while I understand and agree with you point point (i.e. trying to snuff out a baseless rummor), I ask you to tone it down in the future. Barbarossa didn't mean anything evil in his post. Even if he had, I can deal with it just fine Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Duly noted. Sorry to create a ruckus. Those !!! and 's can make a person display more emotion then was actually experienced I guess. I'll try to contain it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by armorbuff: Duly noted. Sorry to create a ruckus. Those !!! and X 's can make a person display more emotion then was actually experienced I guess. I'll try to contain it <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Just go and join the side of Mr.Peng - you won't regret it. Express yourself through the power of language instead of the evil smiley. Please note that all smilies on this iMac are on their way to the gallows. ------------------ Andreas The powers of accurate perception are often called cynicism by those who do not possess them. (forgot who said it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rook Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 I agree with Steve's previous post about finding the right "height" in copy protection/ piracy discouragement. One only has to look so far as Edensofts demise after releasing Red Thunder with an abysmal key system. It was a real pain as you had to get a new key everytime you installed, or moved the program from computer to computer. I personally keep several old games around from back when I had a 7.44 Mhz Commodore Colt, so the prospect of not being able to fire up an old game on my most recent computer really put me off on purchasing the program. For what its worth, I really appreciate "complete" manuals that don't have to be printed, especially for wargames. Sierra did that to me when they released the first earth siege tactical war game (for the life of me, I can't remember the title) the tables alone on that game covered about 12 pages of data. Extremely frustrating Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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