Instead of QB ME, how 'bout a scenario ME w/out flags?

[Juardis]

Havermeyer and I were discussing this during lunch. The object is to have a meeting engagement without flags. Is it possible to do the following?

Enter the scenario editor, let the computer autogenerate a map, but don't put any flags on there. Is that possible? If so, read on. If not, stop me right here.

If that is possible, then you can buy your troops based on a previously agreed upon number of points. Just line them up along the edge of the map, save it, and send to your opponent. That way, it won't matter if he sees your troops (it'll be almost impossible to not see them) because you're going to change their location during the setup phase of the PBEM game. Your opponent would then buy his stuff and line it up along his edge of the map. Save it. Then begin the game. The first phase is the setup phase so you would then move all your troops within your setup zone. He would do likewise. Play on.

The only drawback I see (provided you can set it up without a flag) is that you have to trust your opponent. Trust him (or her) to stick to the agreed upon number of points and to not look at your army when he's purchasing his.

The payoff is that now you are both truly blind. You absolutely positively have to use good tactics to win the day. Plus, you get to peruse the map prior to buying your forces (might want to generate the map, send to your opponent so he can study the map, let him buy his stuff then send it back to you so you can buy your stuff to allow a proper studying of the map without fear of giving away the details of your force). Fight to the death. Sounds juicy.

The only thing I don't know is how the computer would score such a battle. I think Havermeyer and I are going to try this to see how it works. If anyone else has tried this already, how 'bout letting us know how it worked and what snafu's you ran into (game mechanics wise that is).

------------------

Jeff Abbott

[Ron]

Another option, and it wouldn't suprise me if people are doing this already, is to have a third party generate a map, remove the Flags and place the player's preselected forces. That way they won't know each other's force composition or the map beforehand. Sounds like something worth trying.

Ron

[109 Gustav]

I think Ron is right, it would be easier to have someone else generate the map. I'll do it for you if you want.

While not having flags would work just fine against a human, bear in mind that the AI needs at least one flag to choose a general course of strategy.

Another thing I've been wanting to try is a capture the flag game, in which the flags mean everything. Whoever is in control of the flags at the end is counted as the winner, no matter what the AAR says. Again, I'll build a map for you if you want.

------------------

No one but the enemy will tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you. -Ender's Game

[Juardis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 109 Gustav:

I think Ron is right, it would be easier to have someone else generate the map. I'll do it for you if you want.

Yeah, Havermeyer mentioned that after I posted. I'll talk with him. That would work if you're willing to purchase the units for us as well. Just make sure when you create the map you give us the ability to move our forces . Also, I guess to be completely honest, you'd have to lock up the scenario (like you supposedly can for tournament scenarios) such that we couldn't go in and edit it afterward.

While not having flags would work just fine against a human, bear in mind that the AI needs at least one flag to choose a general course of strategy.

Understood, this would be strictly for PBEM. The beauty is that we could get many replays out of the same composition. It would be a different game each and every time.

Another thing I've been wanting to try is a capture the flag game, in which the flags mean everything. Whoever is in control of the flags at the end is counted as the winner, no matter what the AAR says. Again, I'll build a map for you if you want.

Isn't that an attack, assault or probe the way it's currently coded? Or are you just talking one flag, placed anywhere?

I'll get back to you on the map thing if you're still willing.

Thanks

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

------------------

Jeff Abbott

[109 Gustav]

Sure I'll still set up a map for you. What preameters do you want, ie terrain type, time, weather, size of forces, types of units, etc?

When I said capture the flag, I envisioned each side having a flag, and whoever has possession of both flags at the end is the winner. Kind of like the game we all play(ed) as kids.

------------------

No one but the enemy will tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you. -Ender's Game

[Chupacabra]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 109 Gustav:

When I said capture the flag, I envisioned each side having a flag, and whoever has possession of both flags at the end is the winner. Kind of like the game we all play(ed) as kids.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Er, can I just drop arty on them until they go away instead?

------------------

Grand Poobah of the fresh fire of Heh.

[109 Gustav]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chupacabra:

Er, can I just drop arty on them until they go away instead?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know. I've never played capture the flag with CM either.

------------------

No one but the enemy will tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you. -Ender's Game

[deanco]

Man... I thought about this very idea. My concept was to have a "deathmatch map", a generic map for people who wanted to challenge each other to a fair match. Sometimes the QB maps give an advantage to one player over another. Well my map would try to eliminate that. Then you would have different versions of the same map. Force size 1000, 1500, 2000, and 2500 points, in infantry, mech, armor and mixed configs, in differing weather conditions and time of day, but always the same map. The real difficulty here is making a perfectly balanced map for both sides. Assuming you're gonna have 100 versions of the same map it better be a damm good map, what?

(actually I made a map like that, a river cutting through the middle, 3 bridges and a couple fords to give the player a choice where he wanted to cross. gentle slope down to the river on both sides. a big road cutting diagonally across. somehow i erased it by mistake. but that was gonna be the deathmatch map.)

The best idea i've heard dealing with this subject is to have a 'user-made' option when choosing the map for a QB. You would just load the user-made map instead of having the comp auto-generate one. Brilliant idea (not mine) and I'd still like to see this feature in a patch if possible. That way you wouldn't have to make 100 versions of the same map to accomplish the same thing as the QB generator.

DeanCo--

[Banshee]

Just for symmetry I'll post what I posted in the other thread;

"How about instead of one flag smack dab in the middle have 2 (or more depending on the map size, i play smaller battles) located on the flanks and NOT in the middle. It would add spice since you could try for one, or the other, or both, instead of just on sitting in the middle, just a thought."

------------------

Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

[Juardis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 109 Gustav:

Sure I'll still set up a map for you. What preameters do you want, ie terrain type, time, weather, size of forces, types of units, etc?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK Gustav. Here are the parameters. Havermeyer and I will send you our force selections tomorrow (along with the parameters again). Basically we're going to limit it to 6500 points (=/- 20). I've picked mine out already and it's really not extensive.

2000m wide, 2480m high, moderate trees, modest hills, farmland, Oct44, day, clear, dry, 75 turns, meeting engagement, no flags. All else left at the default.

Thanks again for doing this.

------------------

Jeff Abbott