Username Posted April 8, 2000 Share Posted April 8, 2000 What if there was a scenario where both sides had the same equipment, say 5 sherms each and an identical infantry company also. The terrain would be a 'mirror' image down the middle and both sides start out of LOS from each other. The Victory conditions would be one flag on each side (in the 'same' location) and destruction of the enemy. This way people with grudges can battle it out and the best man can win. Lewis [This message has been edited by Username (edited 04-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted April 8, 2000 Share Posted April 8, 2000 An interesting idea, one which if it were possible I would try, but I wouldnt want all my games this way as its no fun knowing your opponents forces on every game [This message has been edited by SS_PanzerLeader (edited 04-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted April 8, 2000 Share Posted April 8, 2000 True. True. Now where did I put my Bud(weiser)? ------------------ "I am not interested in the names of your fathers...nor of your family's lineage. What I am interested in...is your breaking point!"--Gen. Chang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hunt52 Posted April 8, 2000 Share Posted April 8, 2000 This would be fine, but you can't play Us v. Us... (or Germany v. Germany for that matter) - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted April 8, 2000 Share Posted April 8, 2000 Well you could have those maps,and say an even number of points to purchase ur stuff with.That way is still even, But just adds another important decision ------------------ "Some people don't see the light until they first feel the heat" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted April 8, 2000 Share Posted April 8, 2000 Hi titan I agree points are the best way to go to obtain an evenly balanced scenario, I do not agree however, that even points will be necessarily a fair fight. You must consider the ability of the Germs to field some HEAVY stuff - I was hoping that Steve would provide some insight in this area, but so far I havent had any clarification on what would be factors in getting good balance between the forces in a point based scenario. Hopefully soon tho ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted April 9, 2000 Share Posted April 9, 2000 Well, I would think that a Sherman/Firefly or what have you, doesn't cost as much as a Panther. So the Allies would have a numerical superiourty in at least armour than the Germans. I would probably say a Sherman would cost as much as a PzKfw MkIV, wouldn't ya think? This is the way the scenarios could and probably will be balanced. So basically, you could probably purchase 3 M4A3(75)Ws for 1 King Tiger. ------------------ "I am not interested in the names of your fathers...nor of your family's lineage. What I am interested in...is your breaking point!"--Gen. Chang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted April 9, 2000 Share Posted April 9, 2000 Lewis is correct. The only 100% balanced scenario is one that has the exact same forces for both sides using a map that where the friendly side is the mirror image of the enemy one. Optionally you might want to lock down units to make sure that deployment skill was seperated from employment skill. BUT! This isn't going to happen in CM. There is no ability to have the same sides fight against each other. Too much coding needed to do this, and since it is completely unrealistic we didn't feel the time spent on it was worth it. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted April 9, 2000 Share Posted April 9, 2000 If I wanted a perfectly balanced game I'd go play chess or something. I LOVE WWII games and history simply because of all the different equipment and forces. It is precisely those differences that make WWII games so much fun. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wotan Posted April 9, 2000 Share Posted April 9, 2000 Some points to ponder: 1. The German ability to field some HEAVY equipment can be a drawback. Heavy means you can't use just any bridge to cross the river. Picture a scenario where the Germans are racing to cross a series of bridges while the Americans are racing to block them while they blow the bridges. 2. Heavy means they use a lot of fuel, which by late 1944 was in very short supply. Limit the German sides fuel and picture a race for some fuel dumps. 3. Heavy also means if you get stuck YOU ARE STUCK! Nothing could recover a Jadgtiger. Instant pillbox. 4. Also late war German vehicles tended to have very long gun tubes ( Panther, Tiger, Jagdpanther, etc.) The small European towns fought for during the Battle of the Bulge tending to have very narrow streets. These towns were usually in small, narrow valleys or were surrounded by dense pine forrest, forcing armor to travel through the town to press towards their objectives. A Shermans power traverse turret and shorter gun tube is an advantage in such cases. The short range also greatly increases the chance of a Sherman getting a penatration on a heavily armored foe. I have read of several cases where US tankers/bazooka men have fired at a Panthers gun tube as it creeps around a building. A hit there turns that fancy Panther G into a 45 ton Panzer I! [This message has been edited by Wotan (edited 04-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted April 9, 2000 Share Posted April 9, 2000 Wotan some comments on your points 1. assuming there is a river and bridges 2.Are there fuel limitation options in CM? I havent seen us move enough to worry bout running out of gas yet 3.Being immobile in a JAGD may not always be a horrible thing _ especially IF it happens when I wish I had a pillbox . And A JT in the right place mobile or not can be very deadly - granted tho in the wrong place it coud suck -- But there are still other germ turreted heavies that if immobile could be very dangerous 4.An experienced player wouldnt try and use large cumbersome armor in winding streets except in an ambush role ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out [This message has been edited by SS_PanzerLeader (edited 04-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wotan Posted April 9, 2000 Share Posted April 9, 2000 I thought you wanted ideas for scenarios, Panzerleader? It wouldn't be much of scenario if you had the Germans and were on the attack and I was playing the US side on defense with a river between us and no bridge, now would it? ( NAW NAW, YOU CAN'T GET ME! ) On the fuel issue, I can't even get the #@^#&^ demo to play right now, but you probably could limit the ammo, right? Instead of a race for fuel depots, how about a race for ammo depots instead? As for "An experienced player wouldnt try and use large cumbersome armor in winding streets except in an ambush role", read Gerald Astors "A Blood Dimmed Tide" or Charles MacDonalds "A Time For Trumpets". An experienced player wouldn't try that, but experienced TANKERS DID try that, in war. ------------------ "Driver move out, Gunner take over" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted April 9, 2000 Share Posted April 9, 2000 There is no such thing as a truly balanced scenario when variables are involved. And that is as it should be. Balance is good, but there needs to be challenge. I tried that just for the fun of it while beta testing CM doing a tank only battle scenario with Pershings, Shermans, Tigers and Pzkfpw IVs. The numbers all came out about the same, terrain pretty equal, both sides equidistant. It really turned out to be a capture the flag type of scenario. The fun part was trying different approaches, strategies, etc, to achieve a better victory. Of course having designed it, I had an unfair advantage because I knew what was coming no matter which side I played. With FOW turned on and being ignorant of these facts might make for a challenge on either side. I guess we'll find out once the game is out there for you to play. ------------------ Wild Bill Wild Bill's Raiders Director of Scenario Design, The Gamers Net billw@thegamers.net http://wbr.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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