Dschugaschwili Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 First, although not directly VoT related: The Panther stat screen states something called "shot trap". What's this? Second, the Axis forces have a target registration point. Is it of any use (seeing that they don't have any arty spotters)? Third, the Axis briefing states 3 anti-tank mine fields (plus the daisy-chain mines), but I can only find one. Is the briefing wrong? Fourth, what are the anti-person mine fields good for? As far as I can see, they will cause one casualty to the unit that steps on it, but they don't do anything after that, even if other troops walk over them. Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s bakker Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 Doing a little research are you ? Panther shot trap: the turret mantlet of all panthers except the late G model were rounded and rounds could richocet from the lower half of the mantlet into the forward roof of the hull. They introduced the 'chin' on the late panther G to counter this, which implicates that it was not an uncommon scenario. The target registration point let's the german mortars fire at it without needing LOS to it, right away. See it as a 'practiced' target. don't know about the mines though Grtz S Bakker ------------------ Visit my CM site! The bunker: http://bunker.panzershark.com Another proud member of the Panzershark webring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 I can't give answers to the latter three points, as I haven't played VoT as Germans yet. (I'm near wrapped up with playing it as US, though. Quite a wild battle, but I've got the computer on the run now.) As to "shot trap", this refers to the gun mantlet seen on the Panthers prior to the late-model G. The near-cylindrical shape of this mantlet COULD cause AP shells to deflect down onto the vehicle deck armor or into the less-armored frontal turret region below the mantlet. In effect, it's an "Achilles Heel" or soft spot for the Panther if hit with a frontal shot. I don't know if the tendency to hit the Panther in its shot trap changes with respect to range, but it seems less likely a thing that can be "aimed for" at longer ranges. The late-model Panther G corrected this with a "chin" extension that flattened out the lower mantlet and gave it thicker armor too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted May 19, 2000 Author Share Posted May 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by s bakker: Doing a little research are you ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What else can I do if you know the scenario already? If I don't place my troops perfectly, I have the strong feeling that this might turn into another Riesberg for me... By the way, when will I receive your setup? Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marnix Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dschugaschwili: [...] Second, the Axis forces have a target registration point. Is it of any use (seeing that they don't have any arty spotters)? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I've never used it, perhaps I will next time. It could add a nice touch to your ambushes I'd think (surprise, suppression!), or you could probably put it somewhere where you expect their arty spotters to be. For disposing of large enemy troop concentrations I think the 150mm is a lot more useful. Speaking of which, what is the largest number of troops anyone has knocked out with a single shot of the 150mm? I got lucky once and caught an entire platoon stuck in barbed wire, right in LOS of the SIG. Not too many survivors... . <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Third, the Axis briefing states 3 anti-tank mine fields (plus the daisy-chain mines), but I can only find one. Is the briefing wrong? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think so, you always get 3 ap, 1 at and one daisy-chain at minefield AFAIK. Maybe you get more if you change the force balance towards the Germans? I'd have to try that. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Fourth, what are the anti-person mine fields good for? As far as I can see, they will cause one casualty to the unit that steps on it, but they don't do anything after that, even if other troops walk over them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Dunno, maybe they also slow down troops? I've had some success with using all of the barbed wire and minefields in the same area to herd the AI's infantry into a nice little killzone (yes, the one with the SIG). It certainly pays to hide as long as posible as the Germans, as you are pretty much defenseless against the US tanks until your reinforcements get there. So why not prepare a proper ambush? Marnix. ------------------ "A tank is an iron box containing courage." -- Heinz Guderian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Schuggerbaby Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 I've played VoT on the german side over and over again and still can't get enough of it! It is an exellent scenario to improve your tactics and i think i've found out to use the new features like the Target Reference Point, Minefields and indirekt mortar fire to some effect. AT minefields immobilize the Shemans and the crew usually abbadons their tank after their tracks are blown. The US squats take some casualities if they cross the minefields as i saw some of the mines explode when they went over it. The TRP is one of my favourite new features in the GD: In my first attempts in the scenario my 81mm mortars were quickly eleminated after firing a few shells as their fire exposed them and the US artillery which made short work of them. Now i deploy them in a very concealed position, in command range of the HQ which had a good LOS for indirekt fire purposes and the TRP were i expect great enemy troop concentrations ( which is quite easy so far against the AI). The mortar shells allways hit the designed area and are very effective. However, i wasn't able to bring my IG 150 to full effect: It seems to have a very low fire rate and usually is knocked off by a combination of mortars, artillery and virtually anythink the US AI can bring down to bear. But i give it a try again. Schuggerbaby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 Perhaps, Schugger, the IG MIGHT be better employed somewhere near or in the town where it can blast US troops that get into get into the outer buildings. And as an added plus, the town deployment of the IG might constrain how many US troops are able to get a LOS to it, thus reducing incoming fire on the gun crew. It depends on the specific deployment, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 On subject of the anti-personnel mines: I'm currently playing VoT in two different games as the Americans. I can tell you for a fact that sometimes the mines can have a very nasty affect on US infantry. One of them killed 4 guys in one of my squads instantly as they came through some scattered trees. Mikester out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Username: Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 Try using reverse slope defenses against the US AI (FOW has to be on). The 75ATG of course needs to be on a dominating position. It needs to take out at least a couple of shermans and or suppress the 105mm shermans. A good place for the concrete MG bunker is behind the church facing towards the left. It will be difficult for anything to get to it while the 75mm can still fire. I usually put one of the wood bunkers to the right of the church. I try to keep as many weapons AWAY from the 75mm bunker because it attracts fire. Use it like a sponge to suck up the US arty. Put the mortars to the left and save at least one with smoke to help the panther get its work done. The IG cant be put anywhere without being KO'd quickly. I am still looking for a sweet spot for it. Minefields, wire, can funnel the attack somewhat but doesnt seem to be something to depend on. Helps cover dead zones. Lewis PS Minefields should have some sort of "psych" attack effect once they are "known". Units should have to pass some test or only be allowed to crawl through them. US come through them like robots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted May 19, 2000 Share Posted May 19, 2000 VoT Spoiler... In one game, I set up 2 alternating belts of wire and mines across the sunken road (2 belts of mines, 2 of wire) with more wire on the hillsides to either side of the road. I covered the road with MG's and infantry in the town and hollow (to the left of the road). This worked amazingly well against the AI: When they encountered the first belt of wire and mines, they followed it around to one side and slipped around it - only to find themselves caught between the first belt and the second. The MG's made short work of the troops on the road. Meanwhile, the rest of the platoon got bogged down on the slopes on either side of the road since they couldn't find enough cover to hide and maneuver around. The large obstacle prevented the engineers from getting close enough to clear the road without getting gunned down. Because the road was blocked. the Shermans couldn't advance, even with the loss of my SiG and bunkers. The 75 lasted until the turn before the Panther showed up to hold the Shermans behind the wire and keep them off the high ground. Once the Panther pulled over the crest of the hill, I KNEW the Ami's wouldn't advance any further, as they had already shot up most of their arty, and the Panther was shooting the surviving FO's. This was probably my most successful defense of all time - and I did a crappy job on the bunker placements! Can't wait to try it again with the bunker suggestions made lately coupled to the minefield/wire belts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Schuggerbaby Posted May 20, 2000 Share Posted May 20, 2000 Username's hint on the reverse slope placement of bunkers works very good. I've put my concrete MG pillbox a few meters back from its initial position to cover the hill with the objektive flag. The AI decises to attack it straight on and my pillbox caused 65 Inf and two mortar casualities and survived! God, i love those screenshots. In the same battle my Panther disabled three or four Shermans as well as 75 Infantry. The rest of my forces were blown into oblivion as the AI seems to have unlimited resources (50% bonus) and my IG's performance still isn't satisfaying. Next time i go to this scenario i'll test out Spook's idea. Schuggerbaby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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