Sneak command in v1.1b22

[Runyan99]

In play against the computer today two of my squads were Sneaking side by side through some woods, when they both spotted an enemy flamethrower DIRECTLY in front of them which was firing at the 3rd squad in the platoon. I expected these 2 squads to either 1) Stop and fire at the flamethrower or 2) Continue sneaking but fire on the move.

They did neither. They continued to move right next to and past the flamethrower, even as it continued to fire. Once both squads had PASSED, the Green flamethrower unit surrendered.

It seems I have had some similar problems in close combat in cities, where Sneaking units will come upon enemy units in rubble or a building, and they will continue moving, sometimes even passing THROUGH an enemy squad, without stopping, taking cover, or firing. I saw this happen in a v1.05 PBEM game.

What is up with the Sneak command? Is it the infantry equivalent of the Hunt command...or not necessarily? I thought this command would stop movement once a threat/target is spotted. I have found the Move command will NOT do this.

Is the Sneak command being tweaked or adjusted in the 1.1 patch? I had heard maybe it was.

I'm just a little confused. If this was a "bug" in the 1.1b22 patch, please adjust it so that they will hit the dirt when an enemy is spotted.

[Maximus]

I agree, I had the same incident when I had a platoon sneak advance towards a known location of an SS squad. The SS squad started firing at one of my squads, but the other two squads kept sneaking past the SS squad. Luckily time ran out and I immediately stopped them so they would return fire the next turn.

[Doug Beman]

Without the manual in my hand (surely somebody else can look it up for us) my memory is that SNEAK is NOT the same as HUNT. It's supposed to tell the infantry to move forward quietly, holding fire, unless they are met with a serious threat. That said, being attacked by a FT team is a pretty serious threat and they should have opened up in defense.

Unless you're SNEAKing for a particular reason, you should always use MOVE, as the troops will return fire more readily. In moving through heavy terrain, where I suspect the enemy is near, I almost never use SNEAK. I prefer to have half my men MOVE forward, and give the rest one PAUSE command and then order them to MOVE FAST to the same place. This ensures that, in the first part of the turn, if the part MOVING is attacked the other part should be able to support. If the MOVING half meets resistance later in the turn (i.e. out of range of the other half) then the men who are on FAST MOVE should charge right in at the end of the turn, hopefully screwing up the enemy.

DjB

[M Hofbauer]

Apparently, you are both unaware of what the sneak concept really is.

RTFM p.156

or, do a SEARCH

in essence, squads that are executing a "sneak" command will keep advancing in the least audible manner as possible to avoid detection and only fire if they are engaged. Since the individual squads in your examples were not fired upon, they continued with their SNEAK command. Your fault. You should've used move instead, for example.

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"Im off to NZ police collage" (GAZ_NZ)

[Runyan99]

Okay, but it has been my experience that squads given the Move command will make moving the top priority, not self-preservation or engaging the enemy. In practice it seems that squads will continue to move while some machine gun hammers away at them.

Maybe it would be appropriate to give infantry squads access to the Hunt command. Why not?

[Sitting Duck]

Hey Guys -

I understand your confusion with the infantry SNEAK and MOVE commands.

Here's a thread that contains a comment by Scott Clinton that might help: http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/013508.html

I don't think that infantry have the option to move to contact or HUNT, like vehicles. I wish there were...

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Steve of BTS - "With a company our size, every sale does in fact count (unlike every vote in certain assbackwards states )."

[Binkie]

Like Cory, I have seen graphical pass-through...in my case, an opponent's running squad went right over my hiding team, which remained undetected. So sneaking/hiding can be very effective at what it is supposed to do, and I thus agree that the sneak command should remain "sneak unless seen/engaged, even if your buddy is on fire over there", because the brass (you) may have some grander scheme that requires getting units in undetected.

But it sure seems like in real life, a big portion of infantry movement commands would be "move at <insert speed here> until you spot something, then stop, drop and do what you need to do". Shouldn't CM have at least one command that can do this?

[Grobdeutschland]

Oops...wrong topic

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"Far better it is

To dare mighty things...

Then to take rank with

Those poor, timid spirits

Who know neither

Victory nor defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt 1899

[Jeff Heidman]

I think CM neeeds the following movement commands for infantry:

Fast - Get from here to there, do not stop for any reason. Fire if a target presents itself, if you can fire while moving.

Any fire from a unit moving Fast would be greatly reduced, and unit would be very susceptible to incoming fire. movement speed would be high.

I see this as a dash, sacrificing firepower and protection for speed.

Move - Go from here to there, but do not become too exposed in the process. Fire if a target presents itself. If fired upon, try to keep moving, but slow down in order to take better advatage of cover.

Any fire from a unit using this command would be considerably reduced in effect. Movemenet speed would be moderate, cover would be poor.

I see this as high crawling, while returning fire and trying to provide some amount of cover fire.

Assault Move - Move very slowly, maximize cover, fire at your target while advancing.

Movement speed would be very slow (little more than crawling), protection would be high, firepower would be high.

I see this as a coordinated fire and movement drill using a mix of low and high crawling.

Move to Contact Just like move, except stop when fired upon and return fire.

Sneak - Try to avoid detection at all costs. Do not fire at enemies under most circumstances.

Speed would be very slow, firepower would be fine if the unit fires, but it probably would not unless under threat of imminent destruction. Stop and return fire if detected.

What would be nice about some of these is that you could then modify some of the values based upon the weapon. One of the advantages of submachine guns and assault rifles is that they can be fired while moving much easier than a regular rifle. So you could have the firepower modified based on the type of weapon.

Jeff Heidman

[Sitting Duck]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman:

I think CM neeeds the following movement commands for infantry:

Fast - Get from here to there, do not stop for any reason. Fire if a target presents itself, if you can fire while moving.

Any fire from a unit moving Fast would be greatly reduced, and unit would be very susceptible to incoming fire. movement speed would be high.

I see this as a dash, sacrificing firepower and protection for speed.

Move - Go from here to there, but do not become too exposed in the process. Fire if a target presents itself. If fired upon, try to keep moving, but slow down in order to take better advatage of cover.

Any fire from a unit using this command would be considerably reduced in effect. Movemenet speed would be moderate, cover would be poor.

I see this as high crawling, while returning fire and trying to provide some amount of cover fire.

Assault Move - Move very slowly, maximize cover, fire at your target while advancing.

Movement speed would be very slow (little more than crawling), protection would be high, firepower would be high.

I see this as a coordinated fire and movement drill using a mix of low and high crawling.

Move to Contact Just like move, except stop when fired upon and return fire.

Sneak - Try to avoid detection at all costs. Do not fire at enemies under most circumstances.

Speed would be very slow, firepower would be fine if the unit fires, but it probably would not unless under threat of imminent destruction. Stop and return fire if detected.

What would be nice about some of these is that you could then modify some of the values based upon the weapon. One of the advantages of submachine guns and assault rifles is that they can be fired while moving much easier than a regular rifle. So you could have the firepower modified based on the type of weapon.

Jeff Heidman

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent!

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Steve of BTS - "With a company our size, every sale does in fact count (unlike every vote in certain assbackwards states )."