Fionn Posted July 8, 2000 Share Posted July 8, 2000 IN the recently closed thread about piracy a number of people came in swinging on me for merely pointing out a pirate. Now, I DO NOT accept that there's a justification for pirating CM just cause your impatient. I think that doing so merely enourages the warez sites to keep CM up etc. HOWEVER if you read my actual post you'll see I spent a LOT of time stressing that he hadn't simply owned up to what he did, admitted it was wrong and apologised. Forgiveness and acceptance BEGINS when the other person admits what they did and admits it wasn't the proper response. Colin hasn't done this at all and without this it simply isn't possible for many of us to say "Oh well, what the hell I'm sure that even though he hasn't shown an ounce of remorse he is sorry AND we can take him into our confidences and share insider secrets with him in the trust that he won't leak them to pirates etc". ( see, the future also comes into the equation here. How on earth can anyone expect any tester or BTS to trust Colin one iota and give him access to all the textures for CM2 prior to release now? ) This IS a more complicated issue than simply about pirating... It goes down to having your trust betrayed by someone who won't even admit what they did and won't show any remorse for doing it. Sorry guys but the complete failure to show any remorse is pretty galling. And as for people who said I shouldn't say his actions endanger any career he hopes to have... Well, you guys obviously don't know the computer game industry. I've heard of guys blackballed and drummed out of the industry for doing exactly what Colin did. He now has a history as a pirate (which makes him a major employment risk to any computer company which hears about it). He CAN limit the damage to himself if he's smart and mature about this but so far his handling hasn't been smart or mature. For his sake I hope that changes because otherwise he's going to shoot himself in the other foot sooner or later. It's a big bad world out there and this sort of action simply isn't accepted in a potential employee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted July 8, 2000 Share Posted July 8, 2000 What is it with you! You act as if YOU were the wronged party! And for the record, I have pirated software on my shelf. Not much, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Miller Posted July 8, 2000 Share Posted July 8, 2000 I agree with you Fionn, just the same as walking into your local Sears and taking a pair of levi's w/o paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:USERNAME: Posted July 8, 2000 Share Posted July 8, 2000 Its more like someone payed for a pair of pants on layaway but in the interim was given a pair of pants for free. The free pants were stolen but the recipient of the free pair of pants knew they were but that they were stolen but also slightly defective and was going to destroy said pants when he was finally delivered the paid for pants but someone found out about the pants and had to get on the internet and scream "liar liar pants on fire..!!!" and wouldnt stop yelling cause of some sense of being wronged/being totally right/ having nothing left to say. Ponderous..truly ponderous... Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted July 8, 2000 Share Posted July 8, 2000 Fionn, I know you worked a bunch of hours on CM, and you may feel a bit pissed because CM is so close to you, but I think you need to put this in perspective a bit bro. I dont believe CCJ owes anyone on this board an apology for what he did. Not you, Madmatt,WBW, Kwazydog, and so forth and so on. He should maybe just apologize to Steve and Charles, but since they do not seem to mind too much, why should you keep getting angry about this subject? You have every right to dislike anyone on this board, including me. But I do believe that you have taken a previous disdain for him and amped it up a bit. I would hate to see you stop making some of the informative posts and have them end up as some USERNAME vs FIONN drivel that you know these kind of threads produce. And i know how you hated to be attacked in those threads, so dont feed the evil And when are we gonna play anyway. I dont have your email addy, but I am feeling the need to get stomped today. Too much Diablo 2 will do that to you. Ray ------------------ When asked, "How many moves do you see ahead?", CAPABLANCA replied: "One move - the best one." New CM Site. In process of switching. Brought to you by Hardcore Gamers Daily Hardcore Gamers Daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:USERNAME: Posted July 8, 2000 Share Posted July 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MantaRay: I would hate to see you stop making some of the informative posts and have them end up as some USERNAME vs FIONN drivel that you know these kind of threads produce. And i know how you hated to be attacked in those threads, so dont feed the evil <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Nice try but I aint biting. BTS unceremoniuosly locked up the other thread and they should do the same here. Its pointless and stinks anyway you slice it. Lets all show each other how "adult" we are compared to a 14 year old and just drop it. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniperscope Posted July 8, 2000 Share Posted July 8, 2000 I must agree with......but I will keep that to myself. Before it gets out of hand and takes us away from what this site is all about, how about we just drop this issue all together. Gang, please lets talk about CM and maybe about whats coming down the pipe with CM2 ok? Which brings me to talk about something that happened last night while playing a nameless scenario. A 105mm shell dropped right on top of a guy with a flamethrower. He disappeared...no trace of him what so ever, pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted July 8, 2000 Author Share Posted July 8, 2000 . Well I certainly don't want to get involved with Lusername again trust me . I just wanted to set the record straight since a lot of people seemed to get the wrong impression in the last thread. What Colin did was bad but not truly terrible. OTOH his failure to own up and apologise is pretty poor form IMO. Anyways I just wanted to clear that up. Jarmo, When CC4 was pirated in beta format even though I am no fan of CC3 or CC4 I was one of the few people who, on the forum which was involved, stood up and said that pirating was sheer thievery. I take this position whenever I run into piracy and don't limit this reaction jsut to CM. Hell, I've defended CC against piracy and there is NO love lost between Keith Z and myself . Jarmo, I have NO pirated software on my computer or on my shelf. As far as I am concerned you are just a high-tech thief. ( see, consistent amn't I? ) Ray, Of course he doesn't owe ME an apology. He owes Steve and Charles huge apologies though AND you are way, way, way off base if you think they aren't upset about this. Just because they choose not to say they are pissed off on a public forum doesn't mean that in private their position is substantially different. If you want to ask me about it in private I'll fill you in. Ray, I emailed you a little while ago about that interview thing and just a couple of days ago dropped you an email about a PBEM about 3 days ago IIRC. Anyways, my mail is fionnk@esatclear.ie drop me a line ( maybe some questions ? ). Ps. I'm trying to avoid getting involved with Lewis. He has his position. I have mine. He feels he needs to comment on mine.. Fine.. I won't say much about his. Sniper, Ah, the likelihood of hearing what is coming down the pipeline is inversely related to the amount of support pirates get on this forum ( from my perspective it is anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoc Posted July 8, 2000 Share Posted July 8, 2000 Fionn, aren't you failing to address the real problem? The truth of the matter is you have (at least on one occasion) received a monetary award/fee for work in the gaming community. As to ASK someone if they have an illegal copy of the game is just like me asking you, "Did receive compensation for work done on Combat Mission?" In honesty, it's none of my damn business. You appear to be a little too self serving in a personal crusade to vanquish copyright infringements on the web. If you are indeed an employee or a contractor of Battlefront.com, then I can see your point. Yet, this is not apparent from the Literature I received with the game. Public awareness is one issue, but sticking your nose into other people's business (even if you think your nose should be there) is abrasive and down right rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted July 9, 2000 Author Share Posted July 9, 2000 Apoc, I'd be DELIGHTED if you could point me to the occasion on which I received a monetary award. Since I'm not aware of any such occasion someone somewhere must be cheating me out of money I didn't know was coming to me . IOW, Wow, I LOVE it (NOT!) when people come in and make statements which are totally false without even a modicum of research or accountability so PLEASE enlighten me as to your "insider info". And lastly... Seeing a thief and saying "Hey, that's a thief" isn;'t a case of being rude. It is simply a case of making public someone's crime. I hope you wouldn't wish that witnesses to crime stay silent because they don't want to be "rude" to the criminal ? I tried to follow your logic but apart from some major flaws, incorrect statements and weird assertions I couldn't make much of it. Please do try to clear up what you WERE trying to say will you as I'm sure once you're lucid and factually correct you might, indeed, have something to add. Ps. I only asked Colin about this AFTER he had made it obvious to anyone with a neocortex that he DID have a pirated copy. Frankly, I'd hate to live in the kind of world you want where people are so worried about not "infringing" on eachother that they let criminals go uncommented on. Seems like it'd be a pretty seedy place to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:USERNAME: Posted July 9, 2000 Share Posted July 9, 2000 This thread was named "For the record..." but its starting to sound like a broken record. Wheres the locksmith when you need him.. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grunto Posted July 9, 2000 Share Posted July 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt Miller: I agree with you Fionn, just the same as walking into your local Sears and taking a pair of levi's w/o paying.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> no, it's not.. the levis would be gone from sears but what he got off of warez was a binary copy, not an original. i'm not justifying what he did, just pointing out that it's not the same as stealing levi's from sears. in my opinion that's exactly why this is such a heated issue. andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted July 9, 2000 Share Posted July 9, 2000 Fionn, You may be interested in the following link: http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/2000/june/piracy_is_theft.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted July 9, 2000 Share Posted July 9, 2000 What the issue should be, is, does having CM on a free download cost Steve and Charles money? It doesn't matter if a product was taken or not, but, wether or not a product WOULD HAVE BEEN BOUGHT if they didn't have the option of downloading it. Now, CoolColJ didn't infringe on this, he still purchased the product, even though he downloaded it. I would not call it a crime if I downloaded a pirated version of CM, as, I have already paid for my copy. As long as I don't give this copy to someone else I am not hurting anyone (except myself, having 2 games of CM on my computer taking up all that space!). The only exception to this would be if they decide that due to me downloading CM off their site that it will remain up there for future people to download (possibly if the demand for it was so low they would take it off). The idea that it was a binary copy and nobody got hurt is REDICULOUS. If it wasn't up for download, possibly a few people who actually downloaded the sucker would have copped out the cash to buy a REAL copy. We won't know how many hundreds or possibly thousands of dollars Steve and Charles lost by this being put up. If I made a product, and sold it, I would be pretty pissed off if one of the people I sold it to decided to clone it and give it to others for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted July 9, 2000 Share Posted July 9, 2000 While I personally do not support piracy in any way, I think that enough has been said about this topic and Colin in particular. And since he is not here to defend himself, it's probably best if this is locked up... ------------------ "An hour has 60 minutes, each minute in action has a thousand dangers." - Karl-Heinz Gauch, CO 1st Panzerspähkompanie, 12th SS Panzerdivision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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