Tank and Vehicle crews exiting for Points???????

[Mikester]

In my opinion this is either a bug, or a design oversight. This is all happening under ver1.03 of the game (although it was started under ver1.01).

My friend and I are play testing a scenario right now where he as the attacker has to exit certain units from the map to gain victory points. We are about half way thru a test game and he is telling me that his crews that have bailed out of tanks that were to exit for victory points still say that they should exit for victory points when he selects one of them and goes to the unit details screen. More amazingly (at least in my view) he is telling me that crews of knocked out half-tracks, trucks, etc. that were NEVER designated as being eligible to exit for victory points in the first place now say that the crew that has bailed out of such a vehicle is now eligible to exit for victory points!!!

I'm sorry but this all seems highly UN-realistic to me. First off, why are crews that have bailed out of vehicles that were never designated to exit for victory points all of a sudden eligible to exit for victory points once they've bailed out of their vehicle? More importantly, whether the vehicle / tank that a crew is in was eligible to exit for victory points in the first place, or not, why are bailed out crews eligible to exit for victory points at all???

This makes no common sense to me and quite frankly I find it very unrealistic. Tank and vehicle crews, in general, went to the rear when their vehicles were knocked out. In fairly rare and most likely dire circumstances they might have been ordered to get to the front lines and fight, but this was most often not the case based on my reading of WWII. But making any crew that has bailed out of a vehicle (I'm now wondering if crews of abandoned crew weapons such as AT guns exhibit this behavior too???) eligible to exit for victory points means that the attacker is now forced to take unrealistic action in order to exit his crews since the defender will get the equivalent victory points for the crew if he doesn't. This makes no sense whatsoever. And is most certainly, in my view, quite ahistorical.

Am I missing something? Or is this something that does indeed need to be addressed? Thanks.

Regards,

Mike D

aka Mikester

[This message has been edited by Mikester (edited 07-31-2000).]

[Mikester]

Back to top. Still looking for explanation on this. I did do a search on terms "crew" and "exit" and read through the threads that came up. Unless I missed something none of them addressed this issue.

Is / has anyone else seen this happen yet?

Thanks,

Mike D

aka Mikester

[aka_tom_w]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mikester:

Back to top. Still looking for explanation on this. I did do a search on terms "crew" and "exit" and read through the threads that came up. Unless I missed something none of them addressed this issue.

Is / has anyone else seen this happen yet?

Thanks,

Mike D

aka Mikester<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for bringing this post to my attention.

I might add here that maybe LIKe pillboxes and bunkers the Crew are defaulted as eligible for exit points even if their vehicles are not, but there is no way (as yet ) in the Scenario designer to toggle the crew elibility so it defualts to eligible as it does for Pillboxes and bunkers but at least you can turn them off.

-tom w

[Major Tom]

The question is, are crews more important than vehicles, or, are vehicles more important than crews...

Highly trained crews are hard to come by, even if they are rated as green, they are still specialized troops that cost a lot of manhours to train even to that level. You can always build a new tank...

[Mikester]

Major Tom,

EXACTLY. And thanks for your reply.

So why would they ever be sent trudging forward in an offensive which to me is what exiting for points is trying to model. They would be sent back to get a new vehicle, or whatever. They sure wouldn't be sent forward into the offensive (exiting the map) to get themselves killed! They are not front-line footsloggers, they are trained tank crews just like you said.

Mike

[Iconoclast]

Mike,

I suspect the exiting units mechanism may need a bit of polish in general. Besides the problems you and tom w. point out, in 1.01 I'm virtually certain that units eligible to exit that were killed instead yielded both their basic casualty value *and* the "failure to exit" penalty to the opposing player. Talk about double taxation!

Jim

[JOCHEN PEIPER]

I think that for the Allies it would be the crews that are more important,, as they had an over abundance of supplies and replacement tanks... Or the means of making them...

For the Germans i think its both cases... more experienced crews and saving your armor...

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Quote.

If you see a white plane it's American, if you see a black plane it's the RAF. If you see no planes at all it's the Luftwaffe." ---German soldier on the Western Front, 1944.

[Mikester]

Back to the top.

Realize BTS is quite busy these days. Just looking for any other opinions from folks here and brief reply from BTS on this issue.

Thanks again.

Mikester out.

[aka_tom_w]

again...

Has this issue been looked at?

-tom w

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Remember that no dumb bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

G. S. Patton

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Guest KwazyDog]

I believe so Tom

[Guest Madmatt]

Yes, its been fixed and will be in the next publicly released patch.

Madmatt

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[This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 08-18-2000).]

[Mikester]

Thanks much for the update your MattMadNess.

Mikester out.