How Successful?

[mikeyb]

Since Combat Mission is only going to be available by ordering, how successful (by sales) can it be? Has there been any other games that have become successful without appealing to the mass market through store shelves?

I suppose I should define my term of successful, well here it goes. By successful I mean a solid game that holds up to the manufacture's claims of course - it seems that CM will hold true. Also, success must come from the number of games sold, a game may have the potential to be great, but become a bust because of low numbers available to play online. Thus, leaving the great game at cult classic.

This doesn't necessarily mean I'm going AWOL here, however, the low "interest" may result in a lag in patches, updates, and a decent online gaming zone (liberating that term from MS).

I believe the question was asked before: how many games have been pre-ordered? What is BTS's guesstimate on the number of total sales of CM after 3 & 6 months?

Oh, one more thing. I wouldn't have known about the development of CM except for that I was looking at Avlon Hill to see if they were developing a game for ASL, and well here I am. Will the game be advertised somehow, magazines or on-line?

And why is the message box to type in tiny?

Thanks,

mikeyb

[Guest John Maragoudakis]

Demos in game mags and sites will help.

I guess if the delivery is fast,(like 2 days), people might not mind.

Still, when Christmass comes around...all that bloody young,..err I mean young blood

will be missing something great from the store shelves. Cool boxes with neat images do sell. Can we vote on the front image of the box?

[Guest Big Time Software]

Mikeyb, you got it all wrong Traditionally, "success" in terms of sales is necessary because of the evils of the retail industry. No matter how good your game is it will be kicked off the shelf if numbers are low. Same thing in reverse, where a horrible game that sells well stays on the shelf when it never deserved to get on there in the first place. By going online-only this whole problem goes away entirely. All we have to do is care about selling enough games to make a living, not selling enough to please someone else. See our thoughts on this at:

www.battlefront.com/about and click on the Manifesto section

The truth is that we can live very well off of VERY low numbers of sales (compared to retail) because there is no middleman. Nobody to screw us, nobody to rob us, nobody to play games with our future. And low numbers (compared to retail) is all that we can expect from this market niche (wargamers) through this medium (the Web). This is what Battlefront.com is all about; being able to make a living doing what we love to do.

From the developer's standpoint, so long as they can keep making games (i.e. make enough money) the number of units sold makes no difference to us. Obviously, we all want to reach as many customers as possible, but large numbers has nothing to do with the game being successful.

Your fear about quality due to low sales is VERY misplaced. Usually the BEST most RESPONSIVE companies are the small guys. Having worked as both an independent and corporate game producer and testing manager, I should know. Us little guys KNOW that we will die if our customers get pissed and leave. Big companies? Nah, they can always sucker someone else into buying the piece of junk with marketing dollars. Happens every single day. Many try to satisfy their customers, but others simply take the money and run. I don't know of any small developer that has done that. And if there was one at some point, I doubt they stayed in business for long.

The online gaming thing is one thing we are looking at. We will have to go with Kali or someone like that because the others are all about money. Either we make them money because of bulk sales, or they aren't interested. Kali is different, and therefore attractive to us. But if you don't buy a strong single player game, that has plenty of multiplayer options, just because you can't play on something like TEN, your loss

No sales numbers will ever be posted here, or elsewhere. This is the kind of data we don't want to leak out. And even if we did, you wouldn't understand how to interpret the numbers because you don't know the specifics of our costs and arrangements. To give you a VERY rough idea, we figure that one sale through Battlefront.com yields about the same return for the developer as ten retail sales through a major publisher. See why big sales aren't needed?

We will advertise in the near future, but we must be careful. Marketing can be a black hole for resources better spent on making better games. So we will tread cautiously, or face overspending.

I dunno why the space is so darned small. I think it was designed for 640x480 windows, which I doubt many of us use.

Steve

[This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 05-11-99).]

[Moon]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>To give you a VERY rough idea, we figure that one sale through Battlefront.com yields about the same return for the developer as one retail sale through a major publisher.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Typo? Or do I just not get it?

[Sten]

I don't get it either. But I'm not that bright.

Sten

[Guest Big Time Software]

Uh, duh. Try:

To give you a VERY rough idea, we figure that one sale through Battlefront.com yields about the same return for the developer as TEN retail sales through a major publisher.

I've corrected it in the original too, because this was such a dumb mistake

Steve

[Guest rune]

Hmm mysterious posts. Fionn, I owe ya.

Rune

[This message has been edited by rune (edited 07-05-2000).]

[Fionn]

LOL> Rune..

Actually that WAS Steve .

Ooh, I wonder what ur chances of beta-testing CM2 are after Steve gets my email that you called him an "immature idiot" .

This is priceless hehe

(Ps. Just kidding Rune.. although, that wasn't the impersonator ).

[Guest SS Peiper]

why worry about sale's? just play the game and let BTS do what they want to do as far as how they sell there game.It can't be all that bad, damm they sold out the first batch of CD. That sounds successful to me. As far as lag in patches what company you know had a patch the 1st week the game was out?

SS Peiper

[windstarz]

I agree. No need to worry about BTS. They are just what we need. They are interested in making high quality games. As long as they make a living they are happy. Every thing over that is gravy. Their marketing plan is brilliant. Plus they always take care of their customers. What more could you ask for?

[Seanachai]

This be long time gone post. Revisited by old-time jokesters. Let lie, and be glad CM is going concern...

------------------

After witnessing exceptional bravery from his Celtic mercenaries, Alexander the Great called them to him and asked if there was anything they feared. They told him nothing, except that the sky might fall on their heads.

[Guest Mortiis]

hmmm eidos had a patch out for a game in the first week of release, I do believe it was gangsters, anyways this patch was needed though cause game wouldnt run without it, AT ALL, lol. I understand fully what steve was saying and I think running ads would be a waste of cash, I mean us grognards search for new wargames in our spare time so we sooner or later come upon small developers selling their wares. Now consider that bts has made a great game and is being recognized for their hard work by different online magazines, what better advertisement then good reviews, best of all at no cost other than maybe sending a cd to the reviewers. My experience with smaller companies has always been good because the programmers in question made the game because they had a real interest in doing so, not because someone told them that it was their next assignment.

wow too long of a post but willing to risk it since most grognards have a pretty decent attention span

[Dragoon44]

Guys, Im throwing in with them that think BTS is doing a great job. Im hope they are taking a STRATEGIC view of the battle and will be around for a long long time. We studied Eidos in school,,,isnt that the disease where your brains solidify? (Sorry have bought and TAKEN BACK 4 Eidos games, am shivering at the thought of those guys publishing Sudden Strike)

[cpurkiser]

I agree with BTS approach of making this a web only game. From, my understanding a new

developer will only get 10-15% of the wholesale price of a game (Wholesale = 50-60%

of retail.) So BTS, will probably make more

money this way. Firaxis, (Sid Meir's company)

did the samething with Antiehem (sp).

However, I think BTS needs to get the word out. I am absolutely in the target market for

this game. Yet, I didn't hear about until a few days ago, after seeing a gamespot.com review. (I missed Tim Chown review on gamesdomain.) I read lots of game website, and subscribe to CGW, and get free copies of of a couple other mags. I periodically read

usenet groups.

I just sent of an email to a dozen gaming friends some as hard core as myself. I'll be curious how many heard of this game before I sent the email.

I think money spent advertising in some of the more serious game magazine might be money well spent. This game is too much fun to be only of interest to grognard wargames.

In the meantime, you all should be sending out emails to any of your less hardcore friends urging them to try the demo.

[Guest Big Time Software]

cpurkiser - thanks for helping us get the word out.

Charles

[Guest herbjorn]

Apart from having gamespot etc. do reviews, BTS should get as many Game Magazines to include the gold demo on their CDs. Not only will it be seen/played by people buying the magazines but also all the people that just look at the magazines in the magazinestores.

Some retail outlets that serve "the industry" (source: BTS manifesto) also carry these magazines and would inadvertently be helping sales of CM even though they dont have it on their store shelves and get a dime for it

When I first came upon CM back in nov 99, it was by reading a post in the PanzerElite forum.

BTW BTS do you have to pay the magazines in any way to carry the demo? Or would you have to make "exclusive" deals with one or two of them, that only they may debute the demo on their CDs?