OsinO Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 Hey, I just rented and watched Kelly's Heroes - Awesome Movie! But during the movie, at one precise point one of the characters said something and after all the hours of playing CM, my ears were trained to its sounds and when I heard that commander say "Lets go move'em out!", I was like "OH MY GOD!". It was the EXACT same sound from the game. (The allied wav file that says "Lets go, move'em out!"). If you have the movie and want to see what I mean, here is the part: (SPOILER) * * * * * * * * * * * * * Right after Kelly gets his men assembled and through the front lines of the germans, they are all resting. Then an allied plane attacks and bombs there vehicles, so they haveto walk. Well remember the part when the guy says "Do I haveto carry this .30 cal machinegun?" and the guy says "No, give it to The Hustler". Then right after the hustler puts it on his shoulder the guy says "Lets Go, Move'em Out!". Have a listen and tell me that thats not the exact same sound as the one from CM ¤§ïѤ P.S: I hope everyone dosnt already know this and laugh at me ------------------ ¤§ïѤ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 Yes, we all knew that, but no, we won't laugh. There are several sounds that are very "similar" to what I've heard in another very popular recently (1998) released war film. As far as "kelly's Heroes," as the CM Borg would say: You are assimilated. Resistance is futile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 Check out wav file 00001050 and you will see what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsinO Posted August 2, 2000 Author Share Posted August 2, 2000 Ah, yes I do see what you mean Saving Private Ryan right? ------------------ ¤§ïѤ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OsinO: Ah, yes I do see what you mean Saving Private Ryan right? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You didn't hear it from me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 Um, thats Telly Savalas and the sound IS from Kelly's Heroes as it was part of my MDMP sound pack. Yeah, thats the one you used to have on the pirate FTP site of yours Osino! Hey whatever happened to that? You had all kinds of stuff there... Combat Mission (warez version) and Adobe products and Microsoft products...Hmmm..Shame its gone dude...I wonder how that may have happened. Yeah, you SCREWED WITH THE WRONG PEOPLE DUDE! Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex Proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 *chuckle* So Matt, do you think his main mistake was asking myself and Moon for copies of the manual to upload to his warez server OR was it when he actually, verifiably, uploaded a cracked version of CM OR... was it that he uploaded your modpack too? I won't ask which annoyed you most since I still remember your mail when you found out he had pirated the modpack but what do you think his MAIN mistake was? (apart from poking his head above the parapet so we could ID him ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsinO Posted August 2, 2000 Author Share Posted August 2, 2000 Well im not gonna deny anything. B4 the game got uploaded on my ftp I didnt even know wtf it was. Then I installed it and fell in love, then ordered it. If you dont believe me ill scan the cd And who ever said my ftp is gone? And yes CM is OFF my ftp. I always buy the games that I really fall in love with (eg: SoF, HL..etc.) AND I didnt up the mod pack, dont know where you got that from. ------------------ ¤§ïѤ [This message has been edited by OsinO (edited 08-02-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 Oh, I know that your server is still up, It's just no longer allowing anonymous logins. And I have screenshots of my Mod Pack located in your GAMEZ directory, doubt me? Of course MDMP-1 isn't a commerical product so that in itself was not piracy but the rest of the stuff you had certainly was. Man, those people at the Software Publishers Association sure were nice on the phone... Madmatt... I May Not Be Able To Cast The First Stone But The Second And Third Ones Hurt Just As Much... ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex Proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 LOL. OsinO, why lie about something when Matt ( and others) have actually seen the MDMP-1 on there with their own eyes? And as for your ftp.. Well, as Matt says, it no longer allows anonymous logins PLUS, if you want to get into casting stones etc ( a la pirating stuff) this isn't the place and these aren't the people to do it with. You'll only get severely hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OsinO: Well im not gonna deny anything. B4 the game got uploaded on my ftp I didnt even know wtf it was. Then I installed it and fell in love, then ordered it. If you dont believe me ill scan the cd And who ever said my ftp is gone? And yes CM is OFF my ftp. I always buy the games that I really fall in love with (eg: SoF, HL..etc.) AND I didnt up the mod pack, dont know where you got that from. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If this is true (and I have NO idea where the truth lies on this issue), then a strong case could be made that this uploaded/downloadeable version of CM to this person's FTP site actually helped INCREASE BTS sales, so maybe its not all that bad. I know my position on this issue infuriates some here, but maybe, just maybe this game is so brilliant and admirable that the copy that can be downloaded from those "undesirable" servers is actually acting as a semi-full demo for the skepitcal who are not ready to order until they they seen the full thing and/or have never heard of CM until it showed up in these places. I know there are some strong moral objections to all of this downloading activity but maybe, just maybe, it is actually helping to INCREASE CM sales as they folks try the full version of this game, find out how totally awesome it is then want the manual and the full legal version. Who knows, (conspiracy theorist tom here) maybe (don't freak out on me) BTS seeded the downloadable version of the full game to one person, who spread it around, it was, after all available for download the day it shipped, to ACTUALLY increase CM sales. Maybe this was just another way to get free advertising, in a new and different place (it is after all sort of "subculture" of the internet, ok I know there are lots of bottom feeders and geeks and most young teenage boys that hang out in these places, it it could still be looked at as another "non-mainstream" internet market) Since BTS has SOLD out of TWO printings already, how do we know this morally objectionable activity has not actually INCREASED sales of CM as all these folks now want the manual? Just a few questions nothing more. The fact is the CM is on back order AGAIN and they can't fill the orders as fast as they are receiving them. (YES I agree that is mostly due to some recent reviews in well read mags that rated CM VERY highly and SO they should!) All I'm saying is that those morally objectionable downloadable copies may be serving as another (yes POSITIVE) way of advertising how cool CM is by reaching another segment of the market that would never have been addressed had the product not been posted there. Some of these morally questionable individuals actually seem to be buying the game. (or so it seems from the above post). Again I know others here feel strongly about this and I guess I am now about to be labeled unfaithful or a heretic or some half brained dolt, with whacked out conspiracy theories, but the fact remains the BTS has SOLD out of their printed CD runs, twice now, so I have to ask in all reality how much has this morally objectionable downloading activity actually hurt BTS??? Go ahead, let me have, I'm getting used to it.... For the Record, I pre-ordered the full version, and faithfully waited for its arrival, I found the Day-0 ripped version a week before my copy arrived, a day or two after it was shipping and alerted Steve and Chares as to where it could be downloaded. I did not download it as it looked like a PC version only and I have a Mac. I'm interested in this issue because I wanted to see how long it would be before this game showed up as a downloadable version. It showed up quicker than you might think. -tom w Many edits only to correct poor spelling bad grammar. [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 08-02-2000).] [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 08-02-2000).] [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 08-02-2000).] [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 08-02-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madmatt: Um, thats Telly Savalas and the sound IS from Kelly's Heroes as it was part of my MDMP sound pack. Yeah, thats the one you used to have on the pirate FTP site of yours Osino! Hey whatever happened to that? You had all kinds of stuff there... Combat Mission (warez version) and Adobe products and Microsoft products...Hmmm..Shame its gone dude...I wonder how that may have happened. Yeah, you SCREWED WITH THE WRONG PEOPLE DUDE! Madmatt <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Some one help me out here.... Let me see if I can get this straight. Are the Kelly's Hero's sounds in the public domain? No I don't think so, they are (to the best of my knowledge) copywritten material in a Movie the is protected by copywrite law. Was permission by the holder of that copyright given for the use of those sound files in the Mod? It sounds Like MadMatt produced the sound pack mod. If that is correct then where is the logic when MadMatt complains that the sounds he extracted and (perhaps modified) from a movie protected by copy write are included in a piece of software (Mod pack sounds) and are given away for all to down load from his site. But then how is it so morally objectionable that this same mod pack could be available from another's FTP server? I think we are dealing in various shades of grey on this issue. -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philistine Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 Tom_W: Interesting position (pirate copies increasing CM sales). I have nothing to base this on but my gut feeling, but I think you are probably not right here. While most of those who openly post about downloading warez maintain that they buy any game they actually continue to play, my guess is this is a minority position, probably by an order of magnitude. Also, I would think (again with no back-up) that this is even more the case where purchase is on-line only, as it's not as "easy" to purchase in a moment of guilt at the software store. Of course, I could be wrong, and I would love to see some empirical data on this (which would pretty much be impossible to compile, Im sure). In addition, there was a fully functioning demo for CM, using the gold code, which definitely showed the capabililties of the game in conjunction with the posted explanations of additions that were found in the full game. MadMatt: The fact that your mod pack wasn't a commercial product has no bearing on its copyright. (The fact that it was a "derivative work" of CM might, but I'd have to read the license again and, in any event, I assume that the modpack was made with the consent of BTS). The fact that it wasn't commercial means you really have no damages you could recover in a lawsuit, but you could (or BTS, depending on the license) prevail in a action for an injunction preventing its posting. (If you wanted to spend several thousand dollars). On a side question (I'm not flaming here), but what is the conceptual difference between someone uploading your modpack and you using sounds sampled from movies in the pack? --Philistine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanco Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 What I've heard is there are some people in the business that consider warez to be a positive influence on sales by building name recognition and creating a 'buzz' before release. Others say its 50-50, they neither gain nor lose money, once again by the same criteria. At any rate, if they actively pursue the warez sites, they WILL lose money, because the cost involved in doing so is usually more than the sales lost. They also calculate lost revenue in terms of real sales lost, that is to say, how many people who have the warez version would have a snowball's chance in hell of buying the game if the free version didn't exist. So they calculate only a certain percentage of the total number of pirate versions circulating as actual lost sales. This is for their books, or whatever. Anyway, this might be BS, it might not, it's just what I've heard from various sources on the net. If someone knows better I'll be glad to listen. DeanCo-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsinO Posted August 2, 2000 Author Share Posted August 2, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>And I have screenshots of my Mod Pack located in your GAMEZ directory, doubt me?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Listen, If I admited that I once had CM on my ftp, wouldnt I admit I have the mod-pack on it? lol. I seriously dont ever remember having the mod pack on my ftp. Email me that screenshot. aka_tom_w, brings up some strong points. If someone had never uploaded that game to my ftp (which i cant control, I didnt go out and get it on purpose), I would have never installed it, fell in love with it, ordered it. In fact when I first got the game and liked it so much I wanted a manual, so I tried to get one of people. Then after awhile I realized how dedicated the people were to this game, so after about a week I decided to order this marvelous game. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It sounds Like MadMatt produced the sound pack mod. If that is correct then where is the logic when MadMatt complains that the sounds he extracted and (perhaps modified) from a movie protected by copy write are included in a piece of software (Mod pack sounds) and are given away for all to down load from his site. But then how is it so morally objectionable that this same mod pack could be available from another's FTP server? I think we are dealing in various shades of grey on this issue. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> lol, what do you haveto say about that Kelly? While you guys are going around "ID'ing" people, why dont you take a look around your own group. Its not like I asked Moon for the manual and he said "no". Moon was warez-hungry! I mean he was soo excited at some of the stuff I was offering and was saying how lucky I was to get this stuff. I even let him log on my ftp and get a little stuff before I got a manual. Then he decided not to, which is good because it led to me buying the full version (which I probably would have done anyways). So instead of attacking everyone else, go talk to Moon. Plz P.S: Who was the one that uploaded the ****.txt rofl ------------------ ¤§ïѤ [This message has been edited by OsinO (edited 08-02-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 Osino, Matt knows that my position is that I don't agree with him using sounds from the movies in his mod packs. I've said publicly, and privately, that I don't agree with this. So, I tell my friends the exact same as I tell POS like you. As for Moon, Boy you REALLY don't know anything do you OsinO... Moon reeled you in like a fish. Of course he had to fake some interest but Moon WROTE the ****ing manual OsinO AND he emailed all of us about you while you were still chatting ( I contacted you and offered the manual to check that the address you gave Moon was the only one you had..) Then, once we had your server address etc NEITHER OF US took anything off your site and we passed the relevant details on to people who took action. Obviously though you had no idea who Moon was in relation to BTS . Suffice it to say that a couple of hours after contacting him you were fully IDed, noted, your webpage bookmarked and the proper people notified. Tom w, Luckily for you you are only young and might get a little sense. Unfortunately, you probably won't. I feel sorry for you if you go through life with such a lack of morality as you display here because at some stage in your life it is BOUND to severely backfire on you and get you into legal trouble or fired. My honest advice to you is to cop on to yourself before you go into college and/or serious employment because otherwise you're going to shoot yourself in the foot in much the same way as Colin Chung did. Oh BTW, IF putting copies onto warez servers would help sales then BTS WOULD distribute CM that way. Since they don't you can rest assured that your reasoning is totally ****ed up and incorrect. Let's put it this way... The ONLY people who know the figures and have real in-depth experience of this warez issue as it relates to CM are 100% against warez versions and see them as a major threat to sales... I think Charles and Steve are right in their opinion and given that they have FAR more data available on which to base this conclusion than you I think you need to probably accept that they are right and you are wrong as regards the impact on sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G4A Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Matt knows that my position is that I don't agree with him using sounds from the movies in his mod packs. I've said publicly, and privately, that I don't agree with this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Fionn, will you refuse to play against people who use his illegal mods? "You're a putrid and sickening excuse for a human being and with your morals I'd hate to be your sister or pet. You'd probably think it morally ok to **** them both." -- Fionn Kelly, <395517b0.52852852@news.esatclear.ie> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsinO Posted August 2, 2000 Author Share Posted August 2, 2000 LoL, secret undercover guys you have eh? Very Clever rofl! ------------------ ¤§ïѤ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 While I am work and still working on a proper reply to all this unpleasantness I would like to clarify that there is nothing illegal regarding the mods. Perhaps a better understanding of illegality would be helpfull. If I am wrong on this I will be more than happy to retract the mods (or at least the offending sounds) but others with legal background have indictated that they are valid. These mods are for personal use and no monies are being exchanged in their distribution. Madmatt... ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex Proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsinO Posted August 2, 2000 Author Share Posted August 2, 2000 WARNING The copyright proprieter has licensed the Picture contained on this videocassette for private home use only and prohibits any other use, copying, reproduction or performance in public, in whole or in part. (Title 17 USC. Sections 501.506) Copyright Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, Inc. Im not gonna "notify the right people" becuase I mind my own business and I wouldnt wanna spoil a very good mod pack. But Id say they arent very "valid". Even Fionn seems to agree so? ------------------ ¤§ïѤ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanE Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 I just wanted to put all of these quotes in one spot to see how they add up: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OsinO: Well im not gonna deny anything. B4 the game got uploaded on my ftp I didnt even know wtf it was. Then I installed it and fell in love, then ordered it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You clearly state that you ordered the game once you installed it and fell in love. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OsinO: If someone had never uploaded that game to my ftp (which i cant control, I didnt go out and get it on purpose), I would have never installed it, fell in love with it, ordered it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, I assume you d/l, installed and played it on purpose. I also see here you say you ordered it after installing and falling in love with it. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OsinO: In fact when I first got the game and liked it so much I wanted a manual, so I tried to get one of people. Then after awhile I realized how dedicated the people were to this game, so after about a week I decided to order this marvelous game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Then you say that you decided to order after about a week because you realized how dedicated people were to the game. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OsinO: Then he decided not to, which is good because it led to me buying the full version (which I probably would have done anyways).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Then you come full circle and say that you probably would have bought the game even if you were able to get a manual for your illegal copy. So, your original stance that the ability to install and play the illeagl copy of the game led you to order it is misleading. You only ordered it AFTER you were unable to get a copy of the manual. Just wanted to point out these inconsistent statements to those that think there is no problem with people using illegal copies of software. If people want to see how the game plays, download and play the demo. That is the purpose of the demo, so people can demo the final code of the game before buying it. That is why BTS tried to get the demo in as many places as possible. ------------------ Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsinO Posted August 2, 2000 Author Share Posted August 2, 2000 Dan, When I first said that I "Installed it and fell in love and ordered it", I was just being brief. I didnt explain the whole manual thing because it didnt come up to discussion yet, but afterwards I had to get into more detail into what happened. But dont get me wrong, I know what I did was wrong and have deleted CM off my ftp. As for the rest of the stuff that they say was up there (mod pack), I am still waiting for the screenshot of it because to my knowledge it was never on my ftp. ------------------ ¤§ïѤ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted August 2, 2000 Share Posted August 2, 2000 Ok, this is getting needlessly messianic. Here is my point. OsinO asked why there was a Kelly's Heroes sound effect in the game. I responded that it wasn't and that sound only exists in the free Mod pack, MDMP-1. I also pointed out that I and others had seen Combat Mission as well as the MDMP-1 files located illegally on his FTP server. He says the files are gone from his FTP server and that he admits he made a mistake. Hey, I am cool with that. I am not going to try to say the final word on the morality of piracy as its much to convulted and twisted. Nor am I particularly good candidate to make such a claim. But what I will mention is the concept of loyalty. Its as true a concept in this thread as in the one about CCJ. As a tester and contributer to the project I signed a non-disclosure agreement which said that without prior approval I was not permitted to release the CM code or product. I was granted very broad permission to do my day to day work on CMHQ and did so with vigor. During my time as a tester I built a high level of respect and trust with Steve and Charles. They also became my friends. When the game was released and within a matter or hours we started receiving reported sightings of warez copies the whole of the team was outraged. We knew it would happen but it still hurt to see the fruits of our labor stolen and made available across the net. It was at this time that my view on Piracy began to shift. I never thought twice in the past of grabbing a crack for an evualation version or full fledged warez copy and yes I also said that "If I like it enough I will buy it." That was always my intention, but you know what? SOftware programmers can't live off my intentions. Bottom line is piracy is theft. It may not be theft of physical property but it can be the equalvalent of stealing money out of peoples pockets. It took my DEEP involvment in a project such as this to finally see the harm that piracy can be. It's not fair. Many people paid for this product in good conscience and then waited days and even weeks to play it. For someone to grab it off a warez site is just IMO wrong. So thats why when someone comes to me with an IP address of a warez site hosting Combat Mission I bring every tool and power I have as a Network Engineer to SHUT THEM DOWN, within legal bounds. Steve and Charles worked YEARS on this project and my friendship to them demands nothing less of me. I also gave every free minute I had for the last 10 months of my life on this game and I will be GODDAMNED if I will sit idle while people pirate it. Now then about the validity of the Mod sounds. Well I could care less what Fionn feels is right or wrong about them and I can guarantee that if you stick a spectrum analyzer up to the sound in KH and the one on CM you will see some notable differences. Its called sampling and rap musicans and techo-DJ's have been doing it for years and when done right its perfectly legal. Those same methods were also used in the creation of MDMP. OsinO, that text file was not placed on your server by me, but I know who did it. He just happens to be one of the voice talents in the game and he wasn't too pleased with seeing the game there either. Downloading a Warez copy of this (or any product) is WRONG. Hosting warez is WRONG. I can't cast the first stone because I am nowhere close to being free from sin, but I will make damn sure the second and third stones hurt like hell. Madmatt hmm, I guess in retrospect, I WAS trying to be last word on piracy.. Sorry about that... ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex Proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 08-02-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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