Guest rune Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 Just quoting here..please do NOT shoot the messenger... One of the most popular British Sherman variants to model is the Firefly. The Firefly was the name given to the Sherman fitted with the British 17 pdr gun resulting in one of the most powerfully armed tanks used by the allies. About 600 of these Shermans were built on Mk. I and Mk. I Composite/Hybrid, Mk. II (47 degree front upper hull), and Mk. V hulls. A small number were built on Mk. II hulls, this being a rare M-4A1 built at the Pressed Steel Plant. To date through research it appears that all Mk. IIc's were exclusively used by the 4th Armoured Brigade and a few sent to Italy in 1945. Both Mk. Vc's and Ic's appeared in Italy and the rest of Europe. Sources: Barbarski, Krzystof. Polish Armor 1939-1945. Osprey - Vanguard # 30. Buffetaut, Yves. Les Blindes Allies en Normandie - No. 2. Histoire & Collectiones. Hunnicutt, R. P. The U.S. Medium Tank, Sherman. Presidio Press. Olson, Jamie. Modeling the Sherman Tank. Soon to be released. Sandars, John. The Sherman Tank in British Service: 1942-1945. Osprey - Vanguard # 15. Zaloga, Steven J. The Sherman Tank in U.S. and Allied Service. Osprey - Vanguard # 26. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 Bah. One, just ONE, stinkin' pic please.... ------------------ "From Halifax or Newfiejohn Or Derry's clustered towers, By trackless paths where conning towers roll, If you know another group in which You'd sooner spend your hours, You never sailed beneath the Barber Pole!" -- Escort Group C5 sailing song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraGoon Posted December 24, 2000 Share Posted December 24, 2000 Argh.. In this illustrious company I wanted to be entirely sure before posting a reply but am unable to find my copy of 'Black Rat - Red Fox', which has a couple of pictures of 4th Armd Bde Fireflies. I am at present designing a series of ETO battles/operations for CM centred around 4th Armoured Brigade and as a result have come across various conflicting information on the type of Firefly used by the Brigade. The 75mm Sherman issued to the Brigade was the Sherman II, mostly original 'Wright Whirlwind' model. However I have seen various sources list the Brigade's Firefly as either IIc or Vc version. The reason I wanted to find the Black rat book is that there is a side-on picture of Royal Scots Greys Shermans, including a Firefly, at Wismar in the Baltic at the end of the War. There are other pics of 4 Armd Bde Fireflies but as mentioned in previous posts these also do not show enough of the rear of the hull to eliminate the late Sherman I with cast hull option. I will go try to hunt out the book, if anyone else has a copy and can post the picture, (it's at the very end of the 4 Armd Bde section), please do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraGoon Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 Found the book. Checked the picture, fairly sure now that it is another picture of a Hybrid Sherman Ic (obvious angular rear hull). This does not help me at all. I am trying to represent 4 Armd Bde in a series of ops/battles and want the vehicles and orbat to be as realistic as possible. 4 Armd Bde was equipped with Sherman II, so my dilemna is: do I represent the Fireflies with IIc or Vc models. (I am working on the Sherman IIs at the moment.) Advice/comments welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 Don't know what to tell you, Dragoon. This vehicle below has been called a IIC repeatedly. In fact, it's a Grizzly. Of 188 Grizzlys produced, only two are known to have carried the 17 pdr. Neither served in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 Nice sig Babs Now her engines had ceased to turn, but still the shells came pouring Till with a roar her boilers burst, and the white steam went soaring Away to the sky. Her back was broken, and sheh was settling fast, And the fire blazed, and the smoke-pall brooded like a banyan vast, But still the torn Ensign flew from the black stump mast, And the after gun was firing still and asking no quarter When the hot barrel hissed into the wild grey water. So ended the fight of the Scheer and the Jervis Bay That for twenty vital minutes drew the raider's fire that day, When of the convoy's thirty-seven, thirty-two went safe away And home at last to England came, without the Jervis Bay. But now thick night was over the sea, and a wind from the west blew keen, And the hopeless waters tossed their heads where the Jervis Bay had been, And the raider was lost in the rain and the night, and low clouds hid the seas, But high above the sea and storm and cloud appeared the galaxies, The Bear, Orion, myriad stars came out across the heaving deep, And they shone bright over the good shepherd of sheep. The Jervis Bay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted January 7, 2001 Share Posted January 7, 2001 Rune said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>About 600 of these Shermans were built on Mk. I and Mk. I Composite/Hybrid, Mk. II (47 degree front upper hull), and Mk. V hulls. A small number were built on Mk. II hulls, this being a rare M-4A1 built at the Pressed Steel Plant.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Are you sure about that 47^ slope on the Sherman II (aka M4A1)? That version had the cast hull and every one I've ever seen had the older, steeper but thinner sloped front hull, so that the drivers' hatches protruded a bit in front of the front hull surface. Also, are you saying the M4A1 was rare in general or just in Brit service? My sources indicate there were actually about 1500 more M4A1s built than M4A3s, the favorite US version. ------------------ -Bullethead In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heinz 25th PzReg Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 antispam-bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hussar Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 Can I ask a dumb question..What exactly was a "Grizzly". Thought I knew about Shermans but have not struck that one before.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Bergman Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 Grizzly was the Canadian name for M4A1s built in Canada by the Montreal Locomotive Works (Sept-Dec 1943). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 The Grizzly also has different tracks. The return idler is also different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hussar Posted January 10, 2001 Share Posted January 10, 2001 Belated Thanks..guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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