Lipperd98 Posted September 27, 2000 Share Posted September 27, 2000 Something I just dont understand is why this war was shoved to the side.Like it never happen???We lost over 30,000 + men in that war in three years!!! I hope some day someone we`ll make a Sim like Combat mission as atribute to these guy`s who died there. One of the most bloody conflicts fought by Americans and other Nationalities who fought.It would be nice if BTS would consider the Korean & the Pacific conflict one of these days.If anybody could do it it would be BTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82nd Airborne Posted September 27, 2000 Share Posted September 27, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lipperd98: Something I just dont understand is why this war was shoved to the side.Like it never happen???We lost over 30,000 + men in that war in three years!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> My guess is cause we didn't win(per se), but unlike Vietnam there wasn't alot of hoopla at home about it. Of course it was MUCH shorter than Vietnam too and wasn't on the 6 o'clock news nightly in living color. regards ------------------ What you see depends mainly upon what you look for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter S Posted September 28, 2000 Share Posted September 28, 2000 This is going to get me flamed big time. What the hell, call it a rant if you will, here it goes... Why hasn't the Korea War gotten the attention it deserves? Because a more stoic generation of Americans fought that war. Volunteer or conscript, when their country called them to fight in Korea few of that generation (essentially the same that fought WWII) protested the action, and those that did were paltry in number compared to the millions who protested the Vietnam War. And while the Korean War was not broadcast on national TV and radio the newspapers and magazines were still publishing photos and reporting casualties. And media coverage or not, those body bags were making their way back to the States. Many Americans at the time believed the Korean War was a noble cause, if not a necessary sacrifice. Otherwise why else would there have been so little protest to the war during and after the fact? The gov't sponsored propaganda machine was not in full swing as it was in WWII. I find it ironic that after WWII, when the dust settled, people had (and still do) the nerve to call it a 'crusade'. And if this was the case then why was the war against the fascists more nobler than the wars fought against the communists? Why has communism escaped the incendiary criticism that fascism still (and rightfully) endures today? Better yet, if a crusade against 'evil' is a noble cause then why has our nation's past travails against communism suffered from this same sort of incendiary criticism? Stalin's reign of terror alone killed over 20 million innocents and/or 'enemies of the state'. Add in the numbers for Mao, Ho Chih Min, Pol Pot, and Castro and their murder totals positively dwarf all the fascists combined! For what it's worth, I have a Japanese friend who is actually thankful WWII ended the way it did (A-bombs and all) for Japan. He shudders to think what would have happened if the Soviet Union invaded Japan and either took it over completely or split the country in the same brutal fashion it did in Germany and Korea. I guess if you're going to save the world from itself then you'd better be prepared to take on all forms of nastiness, fascist or not... Anyway to return to my 'stoic' argument, simply attend a Veteran's Day or Memorial Day parade and take a look at the WWII and Korean vets; whether in their old dress uniforms or wearing their VFW/American Legion duds those guys still walk tall and act proud. Then watch for the Vietnam vets; casual dress bordering on disheveled, makeshift uniforms made of tattered fatigues, peace symbols and various other buttons and pins decorating their person, in my neighborhood some even ride their Harley motorcycles along the route!?! Why was their struggle any more dramatic or difficult than their fathers' in Korea? It took nearly 10 years for ~60,000 Americans to die in Vietnam, and yet in two and half years of fighting in Korea we lost close to 40,000! Was Vietnam different because it was an 'unconventional' war? Bull. US soldiers in the Pacific fought Japanese soldiers who used guerrilla tactics similar to those utilized by the VC and NVA. Was it a question of difficulty? We killed far more North Vietnamese than N. Koreans/Chinese so it is not a question of the N. Vietnamese being the more formidable opponent. I get a big kick out of the fact that the surviving participants in the so-called 'Forgotten Conflict' to this day haven't made such a big deal about America's lack of recognition of their sacrifices in Korea. And yet many baby boomers, many of whom are still patting themselves on the back for protesting the Vietnam war (is there no end to the overly dramatized anti-Vietnam War movies?) and who consider themselves supporters of human rights, are still declaring the Vietnam War a tragic mistake. Call me cold or insensitive but I think I am dead on the mark with my generation based stoic assessment. Just as the English have lost their stiff upper lip, so have Americans lost their 'take it on the chin' attitude (the baby boomers being the first to display this lack of self restraint). Grandpa wasn't perfect and his certainly wasn't the 'greatest generation' of Americans (I save that for the generation that fought the Civil War, Federal and Confederate alike) but he never took prozoac, read a self-help book or penciled in a visit to the therapist... Perhaps the Korean War is referred to as the 'Forgotten Conflict' because the generation who fought it doesn't feel they need the special attention the Vietnam generation feels they deserve for their war. After all, if you're not complaining, who's going to pay attention to you? In case anyone is wondering, I am a 29 year old Gen X-er, 3rd generation American of Greek & Italian descent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted September 29, 2000 Share Posted September 29, 2000 well, in the korean war there were no obvious gov lies or misleading statements: ie the vietcong are defeated, and then a massive assualt on all the major cites happens, even piercing to the US embassy. (a psycological victory for the vietcong, even though they suffered massive losses) plus there were no rumors or evidence of massacres like mai lai or thoughts of US soldiers may have been baby killers.(the rumors of US killings of civilians in korea is still under investigation) ------------------ "They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush "They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted September 29, 2000 Share Posted September 29, 2000 Peter, Actually, I think you hit the nail straight on the head with that post. I'd like to add some to it if I may. As human beings become more advanced and more - for lack of a better word - "free", they soften and complain more about their hardships in life. Several hundred years ago, no one complained about anything. In England, who fought several wars a century, nobody complained. The casualties were high, people died who had family and children, but they marched on in the face of cannon and musket fire to die for their nation. In Russia, cities were built on the bones of poor farmers who were forced to build them. Nobody started riots. With modern times and the introduction of more "civilized" and "free" governments like Democracy, this slowly changed. WW2 did not see this change yet for the Americans. The Russians did not see this until the late 80's when communism finally collapsed in on itself. Now they are fighting a war in Chechnia - which they are slowly loosing more and more men to due to unadaptive leaders and old fashioned tactics not fit for guerilla warfare - and people are complaining, for the first time since...well...maybe since ever! Vietnamese lost more people then the Americans did in the war. No one started riots to stop the war, yet the Americans, who suffered a measely (in comparison, of course) 55,000 casualties did riot. Why? Democracy and other "free" governments makes people soft. Not saying this is a bad thing. Nobody really enjoys themselves under a dictatorship, but people do come to accept the fact that this is their fate. Or maybe they don't, but are forced to do so anyway. Ok, my rant is over, comments are welcome. ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted September 29, 2000 Share Posted September 29, 2000 "Vietnamese lost more people then the Americans did in the war. No one started riots to stop the war, yet the Americans, who suffered a measely (in comparison, of course) 55,000 casualties did riot." umm, the vietnemese tried to stop the war. they did it by killing 55,000 troops because that was the only way to stop the war, not riots. "Why? Democracy and other "free" governments makes people soft." i'm sure the japanese, germans, and iraqis share this sentiment. "Not saying this is a bad thing. Nobody really enjoys themselves under a dictatorship, but people do come to accept the fact that this is their fate. Or maybe they don't, but are forced to do so anyway." ok, now this is where you really shine. you're right. democracies allow free expression since the government won't kill it's own citizens(which is a plus in my book) even if their goal is to take out the current administration. ------------------ "They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush "They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted September 29, 2000 Share Posted September 29, 2000 Ever lived in a country with a dictatorship? I have...several of them in fact. No thank you. They don't complain? Of course they don't complain. Complain and you are dead meat. During the Somoza regime in Nicaragua when I lived there, no one talked about the Somoza family. I was close friends with many "pinoleros" (Nicaraguan nickname because of a unique beverage they have concocted), and in whispers something might be said, but always with a certain trepidation. But the terror, the uncertainty, the eroding fear that pervades a population always looking over its shoulder...can there be progress and initiative in such an environment? ------------------ Wild Bill Lead Tester Scenario Design Team Combat Mission-Beyond Overlord billw@matrixgames.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aacooper Posted September 29, 2000 Share Posted September 29, 2000 One of the unfortunate things about the Korean War is that there were many lessons that could have been learned and applied to the Vietnam War. For example, The Korean and Vietnam Wars both were fought with "one hand tied behind our backs" (to avoid larger wars), featured one-year rotations of infantrymen (with the same resulting mindset in both cases), were about technology vs. manpower, and we supported despotic anti-communists in both countries. Some differences were that we did NOT let down the South Koreans after (most) of our men were withdrawn, and in Korea, the US Army started off poor, and ended good, in Vietnam the Army started off good, and ended poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted September 29, 2000 Share Posted September 29, 2000 I think another factor to be considered is that there has never really been any resolution to the Korean war. The fighting ended with the political situation pretty much the same as it was before the war. In Vietnam (as in WWI, WWII, Desert Storm, Falklands/Malvinas, etc., etc.), there were definite winners and losers. I have met several people who served in Korea (during the '80s-'90s) who say that the conflict is still going on. The "peace" is just a really long truce and temporary ceasefire. ------------------ Canada: Where men were men, unless they were horses. -Dudley Do-right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts