Fred Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian: In fact, we all know AI is impossible (at least today).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not quite true... In fact, some could be of the opinion, that YOU are the perfect example that Artificial Intelligence really exists... Fred ------------------ "I got signals, I got readings, in front and behind of us!" - PFC Hudson on LV-426 mission Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted August 25, 2000 Author Share Posted August 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M Hofbauer: no **** doctor brain. so, first you enlighten us with the breaking news that the allies (or you personally? or who is we?) won the war, now you're telling us "AI" doesn't really exist - what's next? "the sky is blue" or something? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I am trying to have a discussion about AI. Why don't you grow up? I find your tone offensive. If you can't say anything constructive about AI or Expert Systems, shut up. ------------------ Doc We kicked those Axis Powers (Germany and Japan, and all those that fought for them) butts in WWII!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steph Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 I am a bit confused about Dr. Brian statement: >>In fact, we all know AI is impossible (at least today). What is your definition of AI? Do you mean that simulating a human brain is not within reach with the actual computer technology? If so, I think you are stating a plain obvious fact. On the other hand, to some level of success, a lot of techniques have been developped: Neural Networks, Genetic Algorithm, Petri Nets, Fuzzy Logic ... For all of you interested in these topics, I suggest you start by reading the excellant FAQ update periodically in comp.ai.genetic named: The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to Evolutionary Computation by David Beastly and Jorg Heitkotter. To me when I play CM against the computer and get my butt kicked, I like to believe that some level of artificial intelligence is to blame! steph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted August 25, 2000 Author Share Posted August 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fred: Not quite true... In fact, some could be of the opinion, that YOU are the perfect example that Artificial Intelligence really exists... Fred <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Haha. Not funny. This is offensive and a personal flame. Please desit, and delete this message from the baord. Thank you. If not, I will contact Steve and ask him to remove it. ------------------ Doc We kicked those Axis Powers (Germany and Japan, and all those that fought for them) butts in WWII!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 For goodness sake. Mr Brain, so far we've seen three threads started by you, one has ended in flames and a lock, I'm certain the other two will eventually end in the same manner. Can you sense a pattern? Quite frankly, it is annoying to see someone post such vitriol on any topic he chooses with as much frequency as you do. The only positive thing I can bring out of this is that we've seen this kind of posting style before, and invariably the postee leaves the forum within a week or two. Seen it before, will see it again. PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted August 25, 2000 Author Share Posted August 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by steph: I am a bit confused about Dr. Brian statement: What is your definition of AI? Do you mean that simulating a human brain is not within reach with the actual computer technology? If so, I think you are stating a plain obvious fact. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Steph, Thanks for keeping this "on-topic." My definition of AI: AI strives to simulate human intelligence in a computer. Early AI research centered around the belief that a few laws of reasoning paired with computers would be able to simulate human intelligence. After years of attempted AI programming, it was found that the general problem solving strategies were too weak to solve most complex problems (Newell and Simon, 1972). This is because solution of a specific problem required quality knowledge w/I some narrow domain (i.e., our use of military tactics) to successfully search for the solution. Eventually, the technology known as "expert systems" grew out of AI branch of computer science. In essence, an expert system is an AI program with a specialized problem-solving expertise. I think we're dealing with an "expert system." Now, what's important, is the control strategy used to program the expert system, i.e., forward chaining, backward chaining, and most important, how is uncertainty handled? Bayes, Fuzzy Logic, Dempster-Schaefer? ------------------ Doc We kicked those Axis Powers (Germany and Japan, and all those that fought for them) butts in WWII!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Well, Dr. Brain, I think it is funny. I even think it is better then all your attacks against board members here. But, I guess, our opinions differ ... Fred ------------------ "I got signals, I got readings, in front and behind of us!" - PFC Hudson on LV-426 mission Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted August 25, 2000 Author Share Posted August 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PeterNZer: For goodness sake. Mr Brain, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Mr PeniZ, My topics were 1) Hello, 2) Major howard, and 3) Fuzzy logic. You guys started it, so live with it. opps, I spelled your name wrong, just like you did mine. i apologize. This is a shame that you can't grow up. This would be a good topic. ------------------ Doc We kicked those Axis Powers (Germany and Japan, and all those that fought for them) butts in WWII!!! [This message has been edited by Dr. Brian (edited 08-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rollstoy Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Dear Dr. Brian! I am afraid you will not get a more specific answer to your initial AI question. Months ago I tried to find out which pathfinding algorithm was used. To no avail. There is - understandably - a certain level of secrecy involved and I do not think you will get more information than the "fuzzy" term "Fuzzy Logic". If you come from the scientific community then this might appear strange to you, but do not forget that this is a commercial product and not a paper. Sincerely, Thomm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Mr Brian I apologise for incorrectly spelling your name, I misread. I would like to have credit for having a better sense of humor than to find merely deliberately miss-spelling someone's name amusing and somehow insulting. If I wanted to insult or deride you some how I'd probably be much more open about it PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog0606 Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian: Mr PeniZ, My topics were 1) Hello, 2) Major howard, and 3) Fuzzy logic. You guys started it, so live with it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Doc, I believe you have what I call "Selective Reading Disorder". You actually started the flamewar aimed at you with the blanket statements in your "Major Howard" thread. You seem to choose to forget that there are people on this forum who are decendents from those who fought in WW2. These people are good people (at least they haven't insulted me yet) who had nothing to do with what occured in WW2. I'm beginning to think that your Doc handle is just that, a handle, and not the real thing. You would think that somebody with the amount of education to qualify for the title of Doctor would have more sense. I have an excuse for the way I post to you, I don't have the education and the worldly views that you supposedly do. (I can't spell worth sh*t. That's why I'm a programmer. I can MAKEUP words.) [This message has been edited by MadDog0606 (edited 08-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cypaulding Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Hey children - shutup! If you want to bicker, start a pbem game to settle this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted August 25, 2000 Author Share Posted August 25, 2000 Thomm, I see your point about the pathfinding algorithm. I've met Charles years ago and all, and BTS is a great company, especially their customer service to customer comments. Although I am not looking for any "trade secrets" regarding their programming, it'd be nice to know what uncertainty theory they used, if any at all. That is an indication of an AI/Expert System. The manual calls it AI. So I'd like to know what type. If there isn't any AI/Expert System, as defined by academia and industry, then that's okay. It is still a good game. Perhaps, they've made their own type of game theory using an new uncertainty theory. Maybe they can get a paper out of it. ------------------ Doc We kicked those Axis Powers (Germany and Japan, and all those that fought for them) butts in WWII!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Brizee Posted August 26, 2000 Share Posted August 26, 2000 Feel kind of bad for Doc Brian's students if he is a history prof. Gonna be a lot of screwed up people coming out.... I have to go tell my grandfather he is an evil man now, for being drafted into the Volksturm in February 1945 so he could defend his small town against Soviets. Should of just let them smash the place I suppose, that would be the pure and good thing to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted August 26, 2000 Share Posted August 26, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von Brizee: Feel kind of bad for Doc Brian's students if he is a history prof. Gonna be a lot of screwed up people coming out....I have to go tell my grandfather he is an evil man now, for being drafted into the Volksturm in February 1945 so he could defend his small town against Soviets. Should of just let them smash the place I suppose, that would be the pure and good thing to do?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No joke!!! It is truly saddening that racists and self-acknowledged hate-mongers can be university professors. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>those that fought for it were evil.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Seems like you just categorized the entire German people over the age of 70 as evil Mr. Professor; that's very scholarly and educated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MajorH Posted August 26, 2000 Share Posted August 26, 2000 > The manual calls it AI. So I'd like to know what type. If > there isn't any AI/Expert System, as defined by academia > and industry, then that's okay. It is still a good game. > Perhaps, they've made their own type of game theory using > an new uncertainty theory. I am not speaking for Steve or Charles but I suspect that they (as I do) simply use the generic meaning of the terms 'AI' and 'fuzzy logic' in describing the computer opponent. Using more rigorous definitions wouldn't mean anything to most game players, would be perceived as pompous by many, and would likely still be a source of 'definition' argument from users with an academic AI background . > Maybe they can get a paper out of it. Fortunately the only paper of concern to us is green and has numbers on it . ------------------ Best regards, Major H majorh@mac.com [This message has been edited by MajorH (edited 08-26-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion Posted August 26, 2000 Share Posted August 26, 2000 Dr. Brian, Please allow me to make a few humble observations. The members of this online community are, in general, intelligent and well-mannered. This is a very diverse forum, with people coming from all walks of life, from many different countries (what is the count at now?). Everyone has their own system of beliefs, and they vary quite wildly. However, it is somewhat of an unspoken rule that this is not the correct forum for educating others in personal moral codes. The more extreme a statement, signature, or quotation seems, the more extreme the reaction to such will be. In other words, this place is not about who was right or wrong in the past, or any other ethical or moral debate. Occasionally, it is about the accuracy of historical data or facts, but in general, this forum is for discussing a game. People play and discuss their favorite games for entertainment: Not to engage in a moral debate (which is something they may be playing games to get away from thinking about in the first place!). Someone may very well be right in their personal beliefs about World War II or the powers involved, and feel an obligation to enlighten others about it; however, that sort of education is not appropriate for this forum. Now, you seem like an intelligent person. You must realize that if one person with a strong sense of right and wrong and personal ethics is involved in several different discussions which degenerate into flamewars, when the average thread has no hostility in it whatsoever, that a correlation can be drawn. As the old saying goes, where there is smoke, there is fire. I would humbly suggest that you examine whether or not this forum is the kind of place that you want to be posting in. Your .sig, your profile, and your statements of strong personal belief will always be inflammatory here. Not because people disagree with you, mind you - you seem to assume that if someone feels your statements were inappropriate, they must disagree with you. If your personal beliefs force you to speak out against evil, this forum may simply not be the right place for you. I think that there is an unspoken rule to that effect here (it may even be spoken somewhere, or more properly, written). No one is asking you to 'fall into line,' only to speak out in forums where it is appropriate, if you feel the need to speak out. Does that seem reasonable to you? I truly apologize for continuing an OT tangent. Back to AI: Dr. Brian, in computer gaming, 'AI' is a general term for the programming behind the actions of a computer opponent. I think that most of us are aware of the distinctions between the gaming term and its original use. It isn't that the term is being used incorrectly: It simply has two meanings now. Cheers! -Scorp [This message has been edited by Scorpion (edited 08-26-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisl Posted August 26, 2000 Share Posted August 26, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MajorH: . Fortunately the only paper of concern to us is green and has numbers on it . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'll send you my moldy old book of log tables. Sorry, I couldn't resist that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted August 26, 2000 Author Share Posted August 26, 2000 Scarlet and von Breize, you guys crack me up. I guess maybe you should be professors to balance out my anti-Nazi beliefs. I wonder if students and humanity can accept your pro-Nazi teachings, which would be what you would be teaching to opposose mine, giving you the balance you so crave. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted August 26, 2000 Author Share Posted August 26, 2000 Thanks you major H. I'm actually waiting for the day then, when someone developes an "Expert System" that actually thinks like a potential human opponent. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted August 26, 2000 Author Share Posted August 26, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scorpion: Dr. Brian, Please allow me to make a few humble observations. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I see you points exactly... that's why I've tried to "tone" down my political comments, if you want to call them that. But, as long as idiots continue to flame, then let them flame away. I can type too. Reference Scarletpimp. and von Breize (sp) above. Maybe, you can write an eloquent "observation" to them as well. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted August 26, 2000 Share Posted August 26, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian: Scarlet and von Breize, you guys crack me up. I wonder if students and humanity can accept your pro-Nazi teachings, which would be what you would be teaching to opposose mine, giving you the balance you so crave.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Easy now Einstein. Where in anything I've written have you seen anything "pro Nazi"?? Are you so jaded by hate that you see anything opposing your point of view as "pro-Nazi". What kind of garbage is that????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted August 26, 2000 Share Posted August 26, 2000 Dr Brian, I have sat back for a while now and watched you propagate this crap. I think it has been extremely evident that you are unresearched in what you choose to discuss, and the parallels you draw are merely unsubstantiated tabloid rhetoric. No One here to my knowledge is a Nazi and no one has stated any views supporting what took place during WW2. It is extremely evident you enjoy hearing yourself talk even though you have nothing useful to say. Yet with that in mind Im sure I have just hit your pro-Nazi list (in case my name had not already put me there) in your little make believe fantasy land where you refight WW2. It would be nice if you cease your arrogant accusations and name calling of people that have been contributing to this forum for sometime ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted August 26, 2000 Author Share Posted August 26, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SS_PanzerLeader: Dr Brian, I have sat back for a while now and watched you propagate this crap. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Is this the crap you are referring too? << It is truly saddening that racists and self-acknowledged hate-mongers can be university professors.>> It was written by ScarletPimper. I'm anti-Nazi, and, according to him, racist. So, go comment on his crap. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted August 26, 2000 Share Posted August 26, 2000 You are stirring up crap ona forum where people for the most part get along very well, You have done so for several threads despite numerous requests for you to stop your prejudiced condecending attitude. I will be highly suprised if you could find an opponent after the crap you've stirred up in here ( that is if You let them know who you are anyhow) ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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