BasilD Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 Anyone a firm believer in their usefulness? Every time I buy em they seem to make large, satisfying craters but not much else Is buying veteran/crack etc. bombers more useful or not really? I'll prolly buy em here and there still just because I always like to test every nuance of a game but still...I like to win too Annoying buying em since it means you cant really buy artillery spotters since they eat up all your CA points! ------------------ As the victors define history, so does the majority define sanity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris B Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 >Anyone a firm believer in their usefulness? Nope, they seem to miss most of the time. I have seen them useful, but they seem to labour under too low efficency and/or too high cost. On map artillery is a bit more fragile, but is cheaper, more accurate and can call for fire missions when you want to (after the delay). Played Wild Bills "Saving Private Ryan scenario" and the 4th time through they finally managed to hit a tank. Annoying since the JaBo costs more than most tanks. I tried making a Convoy scenario with Jerry in halftrucks and the allied player with only JaBos, just to test their efficency. (As a side note, this kind of scenario did not work at all. First time through, the allies surrendered as they had no troops on map. Added a hidden sniper, and the AI unloaded the convoy at the start end of the map, ignoring the exit points and the vp flag). When I played the convoy, the Tactical AI could not handle the convoy and I got delayed in a clumb near the exit, this clumb was hit by the computer-controlled JaBos, taking out 2 squads and 2 halftracks. Hardly worth the effort. Should I add that first time I played with them they managed to hit my own troops. Twice! Those are my experiences with JaBos. Makes you wonder if Avranches(?) really happened.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Weaver Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 Fighter-bombers for me range from completely useless to a great hindrance. I've seen them show up three times. First, they bombed one of my infantry platoons as it was taking an easy stroll across a wheat field, causing heavy casualties. Thanks guys. Second, they dropped their bombs on a half-strength, bypassed enemy rifle squad, ignoring the large concentration of enemy armor that was out in the open several hundred meters away. Third, they fired their rockets at some isolated enemy troops, ignoring a large concentration and two tanks out in the open. The Army Air Farce strikes again! Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. W W Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 um...the one time I threw one into a scanario it disintigtrated a Tiger and Stugg. I guess I got lucky... I have always been under the impression that F/Bs work behind the lines, along supply routes, taking out trains, destroying communications and artilliary, kind of like in TOAW, where the biggest effect your air forces have is attrition. Due to the close-in nature of combat, it would be very difficult not to cause collateral damage from 2-3000 ft in the air, so I gennerally leave them out if I have the choice. Of course, I did (I couldn't help myself) design a crappy little scenario with a huge German armored company on one side, and a single Rifle platoon and like 24 F/Bs on the other. It was a meeting engagement. My platoon held the victory flag until the remnants of the SS infantry surrounded and obliterated them. I surrendered with one squad left and got a Major Victory because the F/Bs had destroyed 23 vehicles and wounded or killed 125 men. Like you haven't..... [This message has been edited by Mr. W W (edited 08-07-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasilD Posted August 7, 2000 Author Share Posted August 7, 2000 Ironically, in one of my current PBEM games I decided to purchase a unit of FB's and it has completely decided the battle, unless by some amazing chancehe manages to defeat me with his remaining forces. So far I think they've made 4 runs, destroying 1 pz IV with rockets bombing a Puma and StIIIG and, while missing rather badly, the tremendous shrapnel from the 500lbers(?) immobilized both targets. Later they showed again, and gunned down another TD(I just saw a plume of smoke opponent said it was such) and yet another run he gunned down an armoured car. I would guess tho that the oppoenents tactics had something to do with this: he attempted to sweep 2 seperate mechanized forces wide around either flank, while my canadian infantry had simply rushed forward into the dense woods that constituted the objective and dug in for a fight. Thus my forces were hunkered down so as not to invite the FB's attention whereas his mobile units were easily visable in their wide sweeps around the edges. Plus I was just damn lucky Anyways opponent got so upset he vowed never to play against Fb's again, so well guess they can really be good or bad, a major risk in buying them but can really come up in spades. ------------------ As the victors define history, so does the majority define sanity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 And reality strikes again, while the 9th Tactical Air Force fails to do so. Avranches did not happen, at least not in the way you seem to imagine. After action investigation found that the kill claims were wildly overstated. The real effect of Jabos was to force the German armour to stay hidden during the day, and to disrupt communication/supply. If anything, I feel it is too effective in the game at times. In one scenario it actually killed an HT that my guys were about to close-assault. It was the most intermingled fight I ever had, and I simply don't believe that the air support should have been effective there at all, apart from forcing my opponent to hide an MBT, that a close-assault then destoryed. This (like the LATW issue) is one of these topics that creeps up repeatedly because there are wildly exagerated expectations about what WW 2 tactical bombers could achieve. In a CM scale fight where your forces are extremely close to the enemy's, there is little chance of making sure that you don't hit lots of your own tanks. According to Ryan, at Arnhem the RAF refused air support because of this issue. During the break-out from the bridgehead at Garden (the ground operation) Typhoons happily rocketed the German AT gun emplacements. After they departed the Guards Armoured 'convinced' a German officer to point out the guns to the tankers, because apart from lots of dust and kaboom, the typhoons had not achieved much. Imaginery pilot coming into the debriefing room: Squadron Leader: 'So, Lieutenant Goosebumb, how was your action' Lt.GB: 'I killed 25 Tigers, 17 Panthers, 99 Mk.Ivs, 138 armoured cars and no civilians at all Sir.' SL (taking it down in his book): 'Very good Lieutenant, that is effective use of your ammunition, all that with eight rockets. I am proud of you, here have a medal. Who needs the infantry?' If you don't believe that did happen like this and still does, have a look at the NATO kill claims in Kosovo and the reality that came out later. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 I actually have a funny story about Jabos in a current PBEM game. I had a tank trying desperately to defend a bridge crossing. So, he is facing the bridge, with his turret turned 90 degrees shelling some infantry across the river. My opponent decides to send a M8 shooting across the bridge. He zooms across the bridge, and gets to the side of the PzIV. The PzIV was paying too mcuh attention to the infantry, so did not get his turret turned in time to engage the M8. Just as the M8 fires at the tank, the Jabo he had called in earlier on the tank roars in and drops his bomb load, completely missing my PzIV by a good 50m or so, but dropping his bomb right next to the M8! Unfortuantely (for me) the M8 didn't miss, and killed the PzIV with a shot into the side turret, before it was in turn immobilized by the near bomb hit and then killed by some close assaulting infantry. Gotta love the Air Farce! Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: If you don't believe that did happen like this and still does, have a look at the NATO kill claims in Kosovo and the reality that came out later. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Absolutely. And yet the airpower advocates are all swearing on stacks of bibles that this proves beyond all shadow of a doubt that they can win a war all by themselves. All we need armies for now is to provide a guard at the door of the enemy capital after the surrender. Dorks! Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abrams Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 Jabos took out 3 MkIVs last game cool! Abrams out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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