Reasons CM cant be bought & Downloaded Online????

[Guest PopFreak11]

With this recent story published on TGN's news page:

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"Matrix Games (www.matrixgames.com) announced today that over 6000 downloads for Steel Panthers World At War were recorded in the first 48 hours.

"The public response has been incredible. Over 6000 downloads in two days and what is even more amazing the game download size is over 310 MB!" stated Daniel Heath Media Relations of Matrix Games. Joe Osborne Director of Completive Play said "We are overwhelmed by this display of support from the wargaming community. We will be announcing a very special event in the next few days. We are all VERY excited"

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I dont understand why BTS cant offer the game for Download. I dont know how bif the final version will be, But one really has to ponder this statistic

"The public response has been incredible. Over 6000 downloads in two days and what is even more amazing the game download size is over 310 MB!"

I remember Steve saying something to the effect that someone has to pay for the bandwidth. I have no clue how all that works, but if Matrix can do it with a free product and attract over 6000 customers in 2 days, One would think that BTS could offer something along the same lines.

Pop

p.s.

could someone explain to me how downloading effects bandwith and all that Jazz...?

Thanks

[Guest hunt52]

One word: Security.

[Guest tom w]

I suspect Steve will tell you that he and BTS are not interested in attempting to set up a secure server to BOTH authenticate credit card orders and serve the Gold Release for download.

The secure server is the issue here because BTS is not giving away their game, they are selling it an as we can all see the truly deserve to profit from it.

So they have chosen to sell it and deliver it via mail order only.

I have debated this issue earlier and mentioned that there was a possibility the game could appear on some "underground" servers in it entirety and that there would be a sub culture (market, if you you could call it that) who would have no trouble downloading a 300 meg file. Well apparently there are 6000 of them and it looks like Matrix found them all

Anyway I suggest to you that Steve will tell you that to set up a secure server is not worth the hassle and technical difficulty.

But, they MAY have had a change of heart ?

(joking)

-tom w

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"Remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

G. S. Patton <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Guest Big Time Software]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I have no clue how all that works, but if Matrix can do it with a free product and attract over 6000 customers in 2 days, One would think that BTS could offer something along the same lines.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because David Heath, the founder of TGN and Matrix, owns his own decent sized ISP I don't know how he accounts for it (he still has to pay to tap into larger service), but it gives him the ability to do something we can not.

I also suspect that if SPWAW were not free the downloads would not be as heavy. Also, a large number of people would be demanding that they want it on CD with a printed manual. I know *I* would be demanding such a thing And that means duplicated overhead.

Oh, and kiss almost all of our European and non US/Cnd sales GOODBYE. 30 hours of phone time is probably several times more expensive than the $10 S&H we charge.

Online downloading is not something we are even interested in setting up. Too expensive to get going and sustain. It requires infrastructure and overhead, both of which are killers unless you are backed by some deep pockets (relatively at least). Matrix has the resources to do what they do, but we do not. Then there is the problem of printed manuals and copy protection, along with having to deal with customers whose downloads were screwed up.

Steve

[Guest KwazyDog]

Besides, if it were downloadable that would mean it would run without the CD in the drive! This would mean people would be passing it around far to easily, something I wouldnt want to see happen!

[aka_tom_w]

This is why BTS says we can't download online.

-tom w

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 06-25-2000).]

[CommanderC]

BTS,

I don't have a problem with snail mailing CDs and hard copy manuals, but what I am conerned about is this attitude that somehow if we only distribute on CD, the game won't be copied. It is easy to write a crack for the CD key and the manual is easily put in PDF format for on-line distribution. The game is already available on the net as we have heard in various posts. CD distribution does not in itself provide copy protection.

Many software companies sell their programs on-line by emailing the key code to on-line purchasers. The key code is required when installing the software. This would afford equal copy protection for both CD and download distribution. The manual could be downloaded as a pdf and/or then mailed later as the hard copy for an extra fee.

I think you should consider this type of distribution. Setting up a secure server (or buying the bandwidth from a vendor) might be cheaper than printing manuals and your "fulfillment" company/ US mail arrangement. You have already seen what kind of "service" you are getting from the fulfillment company.

[BuddyTool]

I think most of us would want a CD and a Manual. I know I would. What if your hard drive went bad and you had to buy a new one? then you would have to download it again. I think BTS did the right thing. I take the manual everywhere I go. Cause you never know when some free time will pop up and one can read it. I'm not just saying this cause I got the game back on Monday. BTW, thanks BTS for making my dreams come true. This is the greatest game ever made!!!!!

[Phandaal]

HELL NO I WON'T DOWNLOAD!! HELL NOT I WON'T DOWNLOAD. Hell, If I pay $50 bucks for a game there will be a manual and a CD.

Phandaal.

[Guest Big Time Software]

CommanderC, please read my last response above. There are many reasons why we do not have an interest in a downloadable option. The market is small for such a feature, and therefore we would have to duplicate our services. I live in the US and only have a 28.8 modem connection. I'll be damned if I buy anything that takes 30 hours to download since I would get disconnected before that time period is up. And I don't have to pay for every minute I use the phone like most of the rest of the planet Earth.

And like the VAST MAJORITY of our customers, I want my manual in print. The first lesson for staying in business is knowing your customer. While there are some that would like a downloadable version, the vast majority do not. So if we chose online only we would have to survive a ****storm of Biblical dimensions. No thanks.

Steve

[CanuckinDixie]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software:

CommanderC, please read my last response above. There are many reasons why we do not have an interest in a downloadable option. The market is small for such a feature, and therefore we would have to duplicate our services. I live in the US and only have a 28.8 modem connection. I'll be damned if I buy anything that takes 30 hours to download since I would get disconnected before that time period is up. And I don't have to pay for every minute I use the phone like most of the rest of the planet Earth.

And like the VAST MAJORITY of our customers, I want my manual in print. The first lesson for staying in business is knowing your customer. While there are some that would like a downloadable version, the vast majority do not. So if we chose online only we would have to survive a ****storm of Biblical dimensions. No thanks.

Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well put. 'nuff said.

[aka_tom_w]

Ok Now I'm lost....

"Matrix Games (www.matrixgames.com) announced today that over 6000 downloads for Steel Panthers World At War were recorded in the first 48 hours.

"The public response has been incredible. Over 6000 downloads in two days and what is even more amazing the game download size is over 310 MB!" stated Daniel Heath Media Relations of Matrix Games. Joe Osborne Director of Completive Play said "We are overwhelmed by this display of support from the wargaming community. We will be announcing a very special event in the next few days. We are all VERY excited"

How is the CM community any differnent from the 6000 wargame fans who downloaded 310 megs of a free game (in its first 48 hrs) that may not be as good as CM but MOST certainly appeals to a similiar market segment.

Manual? Well for SPW@W the manual is a digital file that can be printed out. The CM manual is also been reported to now be a ripped downloadable .pdf file which can be printed out.

If CoolColJ did download an illegal copy of the game is he really such a bad guy if indeed he has already paid BTS for his copy on route?

Its not his fault the game was pirated and posted.

I think he's got a bum rap on this one even if he did (and it has only been alledged) download an illigitimate copy.

-tom w

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Goanna]

I'm with the snail mail printed manual crowd. However, would BTS like to consider a trip to Australia on the yacht or private jet you will hopefully have by then for the release of CM2?

Free accomodation and all the piss you can drink could be easily arranged.

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desert rat wannabe

[thomasj]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software:

Oh, and kiss almost all of our European and non US/Cnd sales GOODBYE. 30 hours of phone time is probably several times more expensive than the $10 S&H we charge.

Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can say that again. There is no such thing as a free local call over here that I have seen in my 9 years going on 10. All phone usage over here is on a timed rate by distance and time of call. The only way around this is ADSL and Cable-modem access but its still new and only available in a very few areas, and even then you still have a monthly fee of around $50.00.

[This message has been edited by thomasj (edited 06-26-2000).]

[RMC]

I live in Europe and I just got a flate rate connection this month (finally). The internet now costs me DM 79 per month. Before it was much much more.

Still, I don't like those big downloads. I'm only on a 56k.

The thing I like about getting a CD is that when I need to do a reinstall I can do so without making a new download. The CD is always there. I wouldn't think too many folks keep the complete install routine on their HD as well. I do this for all the patches I've ever downloaded, but for a 310MB game, I dunno.

And the virtues of the printed manual cannot be stressed enough. When's the last time you took your PC into the john for some serious PDF reading?

[BuddyTool]

(LOL) RMC! Good point.

[Tyro]

RMC, ROFLMAO, that is classic, there has been many a time I have worked out a problem while spending time in the Throne room (no pun intended) printed manual for me, pdf is a pain in the printer, I want something compact and portable, who wants a briefcase full of 81/2 x ll.

[Maximus]

OK, my turn!

Sarcastic Mode: ON

Hell, why doesn't every computer game manufacturer offer their games for free downloads??

Why not??

'Cause people don't work for free!

Try and download Diablo II for instance. What is it 3 CDs worth? Or Klingon Academy weighing in at 6 CDs.

Sarcastic Mode: Off

Just because BTS is a on-line only company doesn't mean they have to offer their programs for download. As for .pdf manuals or printed ones, I'd much rather have a printed one so I can read it anytime I want to and not have to carry around a stack of printer paper. I took mine with me on a trip to St. Louis this weekend and read a good portion of the gameplay section. I don't think a pile of paper would be very handy in a car.

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"I for one, am pretty damn close to Genius"--Ol' Blood & Maximus

[Guest Big Time Software]

Tom W,

What Matrix offered was free, old (revamped, but still 5 years old), and only available online. Because of the previous two the last point was tollerable for many. But I also know many people DIDN'T download the thing, or tried and just kept getting disconnected. And I did see quite a bunch of complaining about the manual, although it might have been more about what was in it rather than the format.

Look. This is a dead issue. We are not having a downloadable version of the game. Simple as that. We have been doing this for a living for 7 years and think we know a thing or two about how to run our business. And that thinking has lead us to conclude that we can not have a downloadable option only, which means we have to double our overhead to accomodate a few people (percentage wise) who would buy it the other way if that were the only option.

Steve

[BorderBill]

BTS- Steve--

HEAR, HEAR!!

Well said, you obviously know what you're doing. And from all accounts you all are doing one hell of a job!! It always amazes me that whenever someone does something well there are always the nitpickers who come out of the woodwork to criticize some miniscule aspect of the accomplishment. Have you ever noticed that many of these self-styled have never achieved the success or status of those that they criticize? I say stick with what you know. If in your estimate, its not cost effective to provide some feature just to appease a small minority of users then don't do it. All of us have a laundry list of things that we would like to see in a game. I think you have taken input weighed their merits and then either added it or rejected it. Those who want something in a game simply because that is the way they would do it should go out and build their own game, distribution company, etc. or else quit whining. I congratulate BTS for being bold enough to break the traditional mold and not trying to do what other game companies are doing. If it wasn't for small companies like this, we might not have any serious wargames developed. OK, I'm done preaching.