Panicked crews and abandoned guns

[Mike D]

Dane,

Thanks for the post. It's good to see that some guys will stay in there and fight like real soldiers. Maybe the US 60mm mortar teams were typically all a bunch of woosies drafted from an all girls school or something.

Mike D

aka Mikester

[DanE]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike D:

Dane,

Thanks for the post. It's good to see that some guys will stay in there and fight like real soldiers. Maybe the US 60mm mortar teams were typically all a bunch of woosies drafted from an all girls school or something.

Mike D

aka Mikester<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mikester:

I didn't mention the fact that two turns later the gun was knocked out by a Sherman and those same troops almost tripped over their skirts when they went hightailing it to the rear.

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Dan

[Mike D]

Dane,

Yeah, but they had ample reason to high tail it out of there then. Tank is zeroed in on them and the gun has been destroyed. I'd run too.

Mike D

aka Mikester

[RudeLover]

quote:

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....all crews that have fled their weapons, vehicles, or bunkers have the dreaded scarlet exclamation mark of the once-broken and are not likely to go far if fired on again.

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This is not true. I know this because I asked about this awhile back and crew can bail out and NOT be broken.[\QUOTE]

Okay, that's good to know. Certainly many if not most are broken, though.

I find it interesting (and maybe revealing) that the Strat?AI, who shows no compunction about leading late-game charges and/or doing recon with empty arty spotters and bazookas, doesn't seem to use crews in this way. I assume that it understands the in-game costs and benefits of such things fairly well, but that may not be a good assumption.

[This message has been edited by RudeLover (edited 05-26-2000).]

[Guest Big Time Software]

Yes, while most bailed out crews become instantly Brittle (the "!" mark), it is not a 100% sure thing.

The StratAI doesn't use its bailed out crews in this way because it would have required lots of coding to get it to do that. No sense wasting precious time on silly stuff Nope, crews just try and get the heck off the field ASAP without getting shot up.

Steve

[coe]

I still don't understand this "gamey" concept

is it that you might get half track crews to reman a 150 or something like that? is that the problem. I assume it would be hard to keep track of which crew could reman which (even assigning crews to only one weapon)

What about voluntary abandoning, i.e. the mortar section abandons the mortars to become line infantrymen to clean up a penetration, or what about when they run out of ammo, can they become as mobile as infantry (without lugging the mortar around?)

[TeAcH]

I was visiting a military history website and was reading a portion about DDAY and more specifically the contribution(s) of the french resistance fighters who provided the locations of german bunkered artillery which was then shelled by US Arty. One of the pics caught my eye and made me think about this debate. It read:

"Despite the accuracy of the British gunnery, not all of the artillery rounds resulted in direct damage. These pock marks illustrate the strength of the casemate's reinforced concrete, although the resulting

concussion within the positions drove two of the guns' crews from their cannon"

Makes it appear as though they abandoned their weapons during that bombardment. Now, I dont think they ran out into the open when hell was raining down, but perhaps they figured being away from the target improved their chances of survival. Interesting.

TeAcH

[This message has been edited by TeAcH (edited 05-27-2000).]

[Guest Big Time Software]

COE, it would be a piece of cake to prevent different crews from manning weapons/vehicles that they weren't qualified to use. Scott Clinton mentioned one of the worst gamey problems.

While it might be realistic for a crew to be able to reman an intact weapon, it certainly wasn't a common thing. If a crew hightailed it away from its weapon it most likely would not return during the course of a CM type battle.

We have decided to make a small tweak, which will show up sooner rather than later. And that is Panicked crews will NOT abandon their posts unless they have taken some casualties. This means only Broken crews will high tail it. It works like this to a large degree as is, but we decided to make it much more strict. This will prevent intact crews who are just "spooked" as opposed to "AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!" will stick it out until the body count rises.

We are going to allow vehicles which are Immobilized to be voluntarily abandoned. This should also apply to fortifications too. We always planned on doing this, but just didn't get the time to code it up.

Steve

[TeAcH]

Great!! I for one really appreciate that implementation! You guys are truly amazing. What an inspiration to see designers listen to, converse and debate with, and then implement a portion of the topic at hand.

Once again, good stuff BTS!

Personally, I think I am reponsible for getting three other people to buy your game. I think most of the other users could make the same claim. The combination of a truly accurate and fun game combined with a supportive design team makes this purchase a no brainer.

TeAcH

[Guest Username:]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software:

We have decided to make a small tweak, which will show up sooner rather than later. And that is Panicked crews will NOT abandon their posts unless they have taken some casualties. This means only Broken crews will high tail it. It works like this to a large degree as is, but we decided to make it much more strict

Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good deal Steve. On the Russian Front Panzers had alot of problems with Russian AT guns seemingly being neutralized only to become active after the panzers switched fire elsewhere. The only way to REALLY neutralize them was to occupy the soviet paknest with german infantry and kill/chase the crews away.

I think that infantry in trenches/foxholes might also be considered when under indirect fire. I cant fathom soemone except the greenest recruit leaving a field fortification DURING a bombardment UNLESS there are casualties. Perhaps after its over they might high tail it but not during. I can see paniced troops staying glued to the bottom of a trench during and long after though.

Lewis

PS It would be cool if FOW would not allow the info to be known. That is, if the crew is there. Unless an opposing side has "occupied" the gun position, I think the info should be limited.

[This message has been edited by Username: (edited 05-27-2000).]

[Guest Scott Clinton]

Sounds great!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>We are going to allow vehicles which are Immobilized to be voluntarily abandoned.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is there a reason why this is limited to just vehicles that are immbilized? I can think of situations where a AFV might not be completely immobilzed yet I might want to bail a crew (bogged under heavy fire for example).

If you can't re-crew the vehicle I don't think this could be abused.

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Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own.

[This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 05-27-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 05-27-2000).]