Off topic, but related to war

[Thomas Davie]

For those who like to stay in reasonable familarity with current events, here are a few good URL's regarding the war in Chechnya;

1) http://www.amina.com/images/grozny.html

Pictures of the capital Grozny before the current war

2) http://www.russiatoday.com

A very good site giving topical information on Russian politics and military affairs. A 'semi' official site, and slanted pro Soviet

3) http://www.kavkaz.org/

A Chechen web site giving topical information on the war, purportedly sent out via satellite phone. Very slanted pro Chechen. You've have to drill down to the English link, unless you have Russian language packsinstalled on your system.

4)http://www.fotograaf.com/wessel/westet.htm

A web site by a Dutch photographer. Gives pictures from Grozny as recent as December 12th/99

I thought it interesting because of the diametrically opposite viewpoints that both sides are putting out. According to the Chechens, the Russians have used chemical weapons and vacumn bombs(????). If you believe the Russians, the Chechens torture prisoners.

Tom

[Guest Big Time Software]

"vacuum bombs"

I suspect this is the terrible implosion bombs that are, if I understand, NOT banned by any international convention specifically, but are not used without opening up a big can of worms.

From my scant knowledge of this type of weapon a bomb (and perhaps artillery round) spews out a flammable liquid (gasoline I think) and then detonates it. The fireball sucks up massive quantities of air and in effect suffocates the victims in a fairly large radius. I don't think the fireball actually causes any harm at all, but flying glass and debris probably shread people up. They are of dubious value from what I recall, but if used correctly in the right circumstances can cause plenty of death and destruction.

Steve

[Guest phoenix]

Isn't it more commonly referred to as a

Fuel Air Bomb or something like that. I swear I recall seeing it modeled in a game before, or maybe I read about it in a Janes book or something.

[Guest John Maragoudakis]

Sounds similar to napalm. Or at least some effects are similar. Grozny seems like a real tough nut to crack. I imagine the Chechnyans have guys hidden, peering throught cracks with cellular phones relaying every Russian movement to thier COs.

If the 'terrorist' are hidden in the sewers, can't the russians like drop some electric cables from time to time in the sewers to electrify the water?? I'm not an engineer, but can you do something like that?

I don't know if the technology exists yet but can't you aim lasers at suspected enemy buildings so that terrorists peering out have thier retinas burned?

Welcome to the future of war.

[This message has been edited by John Maragoudakis (edited 01-25-2000).]

[Mattias]

FAE, Fuel Air Explosives.

Used to detonate mine fields or people by over and under pressure.

Has the "advantage" of bypassing all non air tight cover. So it does not matter how deep your hole is unless you have pressure doors in it.

Rips out your lungs, burns you and finally smothers what’s left.

Comes as air craft bombs or rocket launched. I’m pretty sure I have seen a rocket launcher system mounted on a US marine LVTP-7, intended, primarily, for mine clearing.

M.

[Guest scurlock]

I've also heard that napalm can have the same effect, by people who've seen it first hand.

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Eric Scurlock

"He who gets there the fastest with the mostest wins."

[Fionn]

Nah, FAEs are very specialised and Napalm doesn't even compare.

FAEs are wonderful/horribel cityfighting weapons.. Drop one into a square and kill everything in any building surrounding the square.

Very effective, very deadly and a horrible way to kill. America led the world in their development.

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Fionn Kelly

Manager of Historical Research,

The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers

[Guest Madmatt]

Problem with FAE bombs is they require pretty presise atmopheric conditions for them to work effectivly. Due to the nature of delivery (usually in a canister that opens to disperse the ignitabale gas in the air) they are more prone to go Plthhhttt than BOOM!!!! Here is some stuff I pulled out from quick search:

The the 550-pound CBU-72 cluster bomb contains three submunitions known as fuel/air explosive (FAE). The submunitions weigh approximately 100 pounds and contain 75 pounds of ethylene oxide with air-burst fuzing set for 30 feet. An aerosol cloud approximately 60 feet in diameter and 8 feet thick is created and ignited by an embedded detonator to produce an explosion. The rapidly expanding wave front due to overpressure flattens all objects within close proximity of the epicenter of the aerosol fuel cloud, and produces debilitating damage well beyond the flattened area. The main destructive force of FAE is high overpressure, useful against soft targets. This cluster munition is effective against minefields, armored vehicles, aircraft parked in the open, and bunkers.

During Desert Storm the Marine Corps dropped all 254 CBU-72s, primarily from A-6Es, against mine fields and personnel in trenches. Some secondary explosions were noted when it was used as a mine clearer; however, FAE was primarily useful as a psychological weapon. Second-generation FAE weapons were developed from the FAE I type devices (CBU-55/72) used in Vietnam.

Ok, back to me now! High winds or high degrees of humidity can cause the weapon to fizzle (small pop, no boom!) but this is common with any aeresol component weapon...

There ya go!

Madmatt out!

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If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ!

combathq.thegamers.net

[This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 01-25-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 01-25-2000).]

[dalem]

"Very effective, very deadly and a horrible way to kill. America led the world in their development."

Ahh, Fionn, as proud an American as I am, I have to let you know that I read somewhere that the concept of FAEs was based on German experiments with trying to use the explosive ignition of dispersed coal dust clouds to break up bomber formations. And apparently they got the idea from exploding grain silos or something. Still happens over here every once in a while, I believe. A big space loaded with dry, dry dust, a spark, and WHAMMO - no more silo.

But, I am proud that we nekulturney Yanks *do* have bombs that count the floors they are falling through so they can detonate on the correct one. I think that one's ours.

-dale

[Fionn]

Really?

I didn't know the Germans had come up with the concept. Interesting. Thanks for the info.

WHEN was it that they came up with the concept do you know?

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___________

Fionn Kelly

Manager of Historical Research,

The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers

[Guest John Maragoudakis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>WHEN was it that they came up with the concept<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was during a game of Axis and Allies. The axis player rolled sixes while conducting research.

[Herr Oberst]

LOL!

I remember that one. Had a friend almost pack up the game when I got long range bombers really early in the game.

Fuel/Air are "the poor man's nuke". If you've ever watched one of those go off, they are truly awesome. Big shock wave and a little mushroom cloud under the right conditions.

[dalem]

Fionn-

I believe they started looking into it in '44? I really don't remember the details of what I read or where. Like most of us drooling on this list, I have umpty-zillion military history books and mags (reference and fiction) laying around and can rarely find the actual passage I'm visualizing in my fevered brain. And I NEVER do the fact-checking and original source reading that I always want to do on topics that really interest me.

-sigh- I guess I'm a poor student. MH is such a fascinating topic for me, and a great way to get into the history of a period.

-dale