Mark IV Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 This is what you get for teasing (how much more can we bear?): 1) Does fire from ground troops (infantry, MGs) count toward killing the aircraft mission in some way? 2) Will results of ground AA fire be shown (suspended in the sky?) like hull penetrations? 3) Will damage to (or driving off) enemy aircraft count toward victory points? 4) Do FO's and their LOS have an effect on aircraft efficacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 1. Yes. The more fire the plane is subjected to the more likely it will leave the area, be damaged or destroyed. 2. Nope, I don't think so. 3. No. If you shoot it down it will count though and conrtary to what is says in CMHQ they can be shot down. It is just really unlikely. 4. FOs are not FACs and as such have no effect. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Boot Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 If a plane is shot down, do we get to see the wreck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 I'll tell you when I shoot the first jabo down. I haven't gotten a single one yet. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 Fionn, In a chat with Steve I asked a similar question regarding shooting down planes and I thought that Steve said that there would be NO graphic representation of burning wrecks etc... BUT I do have some screenshots of some cool AAA airburst where the plane was and I can confirm that the plane DID abort its attack run...Everyone just be patient and all will be revealed! Over 36 pics to go, I got it all covered! Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 01-05-2000).] [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 01-05-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted January 5, 2000 Author Share Posted January 5, 2000 Thanks for the responses! Re: no results being shown, it does seem to rob the AAA operator of some satisfaction at knowing the results of his efforts (though I suspect most AA batteries never knew if they were hitting anything or not- my dad was a quad-.50+90mm AA operator, went over at D+5, and backs this up). Will FACs be included then, like FOs? Thanks again, and Matt, as far as being patient... we're dying out here... curse these demos.... [This message has been edited by Mark IV (edited 01-05-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 No Forward Air Controllers that I have seen. The planes are pretty much entirely autonymous. They will pick the best weapon suited from what they have available and make their runs enough times until they are satisified or driven off. The great thing is that they can make mistakes (and this will be shown in Air Attack as well) they can strafe and bomb already destroyed vehicles and hit friendly troops. But man are they fun and the sound effects that BTS has in are great! Don't forget, Charles also was Mr. Wiz behind Over the Reich and Acthung Spitfire, so planes are given a good treatment...Very good... Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 01-05-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durutti Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 From reading a couple of books on the battles around Caen it seemed that whenever the Allies tried to make air attacks during a 'close-up' fire fight they almost inevitably knocked out some of their own vehicles through mis-identification. The radio comms were just too crude then. Coloured flares to indicate 'friendlies' were one solution adopted but even then on several occasions (eg Operation Tractable) the RAF and USAAF got the colours mixed up and killed many of their own side. Added to this was the fact that the Germans caught onto this tactic and fired off their own 'friendly' coloured flares just to confuse the issue! Just wondering how this sort of 'friendly-fire' is simulated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted January 5, 2000 Share Posted January 5, 2000 I had asked about this a little while back. I had noticed, based on the Alpha AAR, that it was unclear how targets were defined for aircraft. The answer to me question about FACs seemed to be that there were no FACs in CM, but there may be some way to generally designate targets. I guess I had misunderstood, as it seems that there will be no player input. While I applaud CM for avoiding the unrealistic levels of control over aircraft that are in SP, I do think some sort of control may sometimes be warranted. From what I have read, FACs were sometimes available as a battalion asset for U.S. forces in the ETO. Also, some artillery FOs were able to indirectly tap into the radio nets of the on-call CAS planes. How does this translate to a game like CM? Clearly what is not warranted is the SP approach - attack the third tank in the formation advancing from the farm house three turns from now. Maybe some sort of equivalent of area fire (to designate priority targets) may work though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 Durutti said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>From reading a couple of books on the battles around Caen it seemed that whenever the Allies tried to make air attacks during a 'close-up' fire fight they almost inevitably knocked out some of their own vehicles through mis-identification. The radio comms were just too crude then.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Comms are still too crude today. Anybody remember all the "friendly fire" our planes did to us poor ground pounders in the Gulf? I sure do--I lost 2 friends to it. -Bullethead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 To confirm something that Fionn mentioned above, it IS possible to shoot down planes as I just did it in another AAA test I was doing. There is an explosion of sorts in the air but it is difficult to tell if its from one of the 3 dozen flaks guns I put on the ground or in fact the plane blowing up, Expect a shot of this soon in the Air Attack section on CMHQ! Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GriffinCheng Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 2 more questions: 1. I suppose air support will be mostly available for the Allied, right? 2. How is assets handled? Will it handled like SP & TotP/PitS series where the same plane can have multiple runs or handled abstract like EF/WF? Regards, Griffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 You know the answers to all of these questions that have been asked are covered in the Index of the Air Attack section on CMHQ! But in case you didn't know let me answer your questions... A scenario designer dicatates who gets air assets, it can be either side. If you build your own scenario then you can add as many planes as you like... And yes Germans have planes as well...Allied and Axis both... A plane can make multiple passes but it depends on several things. Most of all the volume and effectiveness of triple A against the plane. A good pilot will try to make a attack run more often and with better odds of success than a green pilot. Pilot skill level can also be chosen by the designer. the planes choose the target and employs the most effective weapon that it has left. Hope that answers your questions! Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 01-05-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GriffinCheng Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 Loud 'n clear, Matt. May be I have missed the lines...(scratching my head) BTW, appearently screenshots are taken by that "Private Ryan" scenario. Nice shots! Griffin. P.S. Sorry but I wonder if we have Hs-129 there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 Nope, it seems no Henschel 129s served on the Western Front at that time. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Boot Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 Well, I'd settle for Rudel in a Stuka any day. Fionn, seeing how well you dealt with the Jabo in the Alpha AAR, I think you'd agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 The first 13 pictures in Air Attack (page 1 and 2) were taken from Wild Bills great Ramelle scenario and is VERY playable. The rest (starting with page 3 going up later today) and the teaser pics were taken from test scenarios created from my own quite twisted mind to show off triple A in action with lots of big explosions, unlike Wild Bill's effort above these new ones were not meant to be fair at all, just fun to watch. Madmatt out and getting distracted by all the pretty colors! ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Boot Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 Madmatt, please take it easy on the colours. My doctor has warned me about such excess, as it might damage my eye-sight. Das Boot, wearing sun-glasses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 6, 2000 Share Posted January 6, 2000 DasBoot, Well to be fair the code which regulated AAA fire was not in by the time the Alpha AAR was started so I was languishing in that time period when planes were in but no ground units would fire at them ;(. This meant Martin's airplane really had a free run. I also think there was a bug in the loadout of the plane which meant it should only have killed 1 tank, not 2. Still, Martin won that game fair and square and we had a lot of fun doing it. I know we both had to deal with bugs during that game .. It is amazing how far CM has come since that time... really amazing. NOW it is different however LOL . ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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