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Invariably, as soon as I start using mods in CMBO, I will lose the animation for normal explosions...mortar rounds, tank round hitting the ground, stuff like that. What I end up with is a white explosion, which of course looks like bat guano.

Even unloading the mods won't fix the problem...the only way I know to fix it is with a clean re-install.

Has anyone else encountered this problem? I don't know which mod causes the the glitch. I'm wondering if I could just copy the normal explosion .BMPs from the CD, if I knew the numbers, and overwrite the bad ones?

If anyone knows how to fix this, please let me know.

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The bmp's for explosions are 1720-1729 inclusive. You might want to change the properties before you try using the files in your bmp folder.

However, what you are describing is a bit unusual. I think I tested all the major explosion mods for CMBO when I was making my own, and I don't ever recall seeing anything like what you've described. The only thing that I ever saw that was a bit untoward was on my own (unreleased) Roy Lichtenstein explosion mod, where the BLAMM! text tended to flip upside down at random because of the way the program works.

Actually, the only time I ever saw anything like what you're describing was on a weapons mod, and I'm still not sure what caused it (it was one weapon used by Fallschirmjaegers in Juju's modslut mod, and I suspect the problem had nothing to do with the mod).

Could you be a little more precise? What mod were you using that caused the problem? If you added a mod, doesn't it make sense to simply copy the bmp's from the disk that are the same ones that you copied?

You may have something a bit more involved going on than a faulty mod, but without more details I can't comment. How many of the frames look like bat guano? All of them? Some of them? How did you install the mod -- did you resize any of the bmp's first, by any chance? What exactly did you do, and where exactly did you put it ?

Are you running on an old and slow system that is short of memory or hard drive space, perhaps? Is your CMBO the pristine and pure BTS version, or one of those corrupt CDV ones?

And when you say "as soon as I start running mods in CMBO" do you mean "as soon as I try to use an explosion mod" or "as soon as I install Fernando's halftracks my explosions turn into bat guano"?

When was the last time you defragmented your hard drive? The solution to your problem may be as simple as freeing up a little disk space (hard drives seem to run better when they're half empty), turning off useless programs that run in the background and gobble up memory (can be done by going into task manager and turning off everything that can be turned off except Explorer), deleting your current install of CMBO (after you make a copy of the wav and bmp folders if you have mods, delete them as well if you don't), and making a new, clean install of CMBO with nothing running in the background (especially firewalls and anti-virus, which you won't need running during an install of a clean commercial product).

But before I start throwing out suggestions like that it would really help to know a few basics about what your doing. And now I'll go look and see if there's an animation toggle switch that you may have hit accidently.

Please come back on this, because I still haven't figured out what causes one of my weapons to be off, and I'd really like to get a handle on this.

I think bmp's with the wrong pixel proportions are what cause the bat guano effect, but I'm not quite sure.

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Philippe, thanks for the reply. The problem is on 2 different computers, so it's not related to a specific video card (well, come to think of it, both of them have ATI Radeons of different flavors).

Anyway, I usually load up about 20 mods at once, and JuJu's small arms is one of them. About the only way I could narrow it down would be to re-install the game, then load the mods one by one. I'll try just replacing the .BMPs first...if that screws the thing up any worse, I'll just re-install...not that much work for CMBO.

Stay tuned..I'll keep you posted. Thanks again!

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Well, one thing I've noticed right off..those files don't exist either on the CD, or the intalled BMP folder...I have from 1700 to 1717, then nothing 'til the 18xx files. Weird...

EDIT: ok, I've just done a clean re-install. With no mods, everything looks normal. I will now load up CMod, and do them one by one.

OKAY...it's JuJu's small arms mod that appears to be the culprit. It pretty much has to be, since it's the only mod I loaded, and I immediately have the same problem again. Here's a tasty pic:


[ December 29, 2004, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: teotwawki1 ]

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Just to clarify, what I'm seeing doesn't look like a problem caused by the presence of another mod. It looks like the absence of the necessary bmp files to begin with.

Do a clean install. No mods. Look in your bmp folder. Do you see the explosion bmp's? If you don't, we're getting very warm. If those bmp's aren't on the cd, I don't see how they could possibly get into your bmp folder. Unless you have one of the older cd's that left out the explosions (assuming that was the case) and the patch re-inserted them (there were a dozen or so patches on CMBO). When you fire up the game with bat guano explosions (which could make an interesting unshuffled deck of playing cards mod) what version number appears on the menu screen in the lower right hand corner? [i think that's where it appears].

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Phillipe, I just did a clean install. Booted it up, the explosions looked fine...that was ver 1.0. Patched to 1.12, booted up, everything ok. Loaded Cmod, and JuJu's small arms mod, booted up, got the graphic in the pic. I did not check for the presence of those .BMPs right after the clean install, as I got the right graphic...figuring they *must* be there if I got the correct graphic.

I bought my CMBO when the game first came out, mail order direct from Battlefront, so it's version 1.0, and I'd be surprised if this wasn't one of the first 100 copies sold.

Now, I just did another clean install...those files do not exist on the CD, or the unpatched/patched to 1.12 version I have. It's probable that this an early CD, and other files were added, and my explosion files are the ones from 1700 to 1717...they look like it when I click on them and they open up in Paint.

Here's a pic of the explosions in the un modded most recent install...nanoseconds after the shockwave, overything looks ok.


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You got the graphic in the first picture after you installed Juju, or the second picture ?

Also, "loaded CMod" ? What is that?

I don't really understand why Juju's small arms mod would effect an unrelated set of bmp's.

Mod switching programs, on the other hand (I'm assuming that is what you're talking about when you say CMod, no?) can do all kinds of weird things. Especially if the person writing the instructions was tired and made a slip of the pen, and didn't have a deep back-up team to catch mistakes (now you know where pink spots come from).

If the graphic looks right, look in the bmp folder and confirm that it's there (it will be).

Then do whatever you did to make the graphics not look right, look in the bmp folder...and I'm guessing that the bmp's might still be there, but renumbered (again...what is CMod? That could be the key...if you mean CMMOS I can help you get to the bottom of this, even though I don't use 4.05. If you mean McMMM I don't know enough about how it works). A file will show up as a white square if the program thinks it isn't there for some reason.

So please elaborate on the loaded CMod part, because that may be the culprit, and not poor Juju's wonderful mod.

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The "bad" explosion is a clean install, with only JuJu's small arms loaded via CM Mod Manager (I call it CMod for short). When I referenced "loading Cmod" I just meant that I installed it after I patched CMBO, to use as my mod installer.

The "good" explosion is another fresh re-intall with no mods loaded, and no CM Mod Manager...just CMBO as God (and Battlefront hehe) intended it.

I've had no luck at all getting any mods for CMBO to run under CMMOS...they work fine with CMBB, (using the appropriate mods for each game obviously), but not CMBO. But that's another problem lol.

It could be that CM Mod Manager just doesn't like JuJu's mod, given what you say about mod manager programs sometimes freaking out. The white square you mention seems to be the same problem I'm having. BTW, I got CM Mod Manager from Combat Mission HQ, and don't seem to have any other problems using it for a whole long list of mods I usually install.

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Should I understand that the explosion question is resolved then? If it is, we can move on to CMMOS in CMBO vs. CMBB.

The only CMBO mods that you are likely to download that can be made to work in CMMOS come from two places in theory, but only one in practise.

The best place to start is at CMHQ in the CMMOS section. Only mods from the CMBO CMMOS section will work in CMBO CMMOS. CMBB CMMOS mods won't work (unless you coerce them), and Third-Party Mods (to use CMHQ-speak) will never work unless you coerce them and do unmentionable things to them that I don't want to discuss in public (described in intimate detail in the GEM Software Productions/CMMOS readme files).

For a mod to work in CMBO CMMOS the following conditions must be met:

1) The mod is a CMBO CMMOS mod (amazing how often people refuse to notice this).

2) CMMOS 4.03 is installed correctly (note: 4.03 comes from the CMMOS section of CMHQ, 4.05 comes from the CMBO section of CMMODS. They aren't the same, but can be made to work together if you're patient and know how your way around CMMOS).

3) A Ruleset covering the rule that makes your mod work exists in CMMOS. (You want to do a german tank, so the easiest way to know if the ruleset exists is to fire up CMMOS and look and see if there is a tab called "German Vehicles and Guns").

4) A Rule covering the mod that you want to install exists in CMMOS. (The tell-tale sign of this is the presence or absence of an icon, lit up or greyed out, with a picture of the tank that you want to install).

5) The CMMOS mod that you want to install is housed happily in the CMBO bmp folder (not the CMMOS CMBO folder). The tell-tale sign of the absence or presence of a mod is that the icon that operates it is greyed out, which means the CMMOS program can't find it for one reason or another. The fun begins when you start trying to figure out why the program can't find it.

The mods from CMBO work on a slightly different but simpler principle than the mods from CMBB. Essentially what you do with the CMMOS CMBO mods is that you put the bmp's with extensions unzipped directly into the CMBO/bmp folder along with all the other bmp's that the game uses. You have to make sure that you have CMMOS installed, that you have the CMBO rulesets in place (they're all at CMHQ in the CMBO CMMOS section), that the rule that covers your mod is working (if you can't see the icon, look under the hood in the CMMOS CMBO file). Everything is covered in the readme file, and you only have to read about a third of it to figure out what to do. But you have to read it.

I go on about this at length because I find your comment that you could make mods work with CMBB CMMOS but not CMBO CMMOS rather puzzling. And also because the pool of CMMOS knowledge out there is getting rather thin these days, so this is probably worth repeating from time to time.

Pick a mod that you would like to have work in CMBO CMMOS that you can't get to work, and I'd be more than happy to walk you through it. Once you learn how to get one to work, you can make any of them work, and others will learn from your experience.

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Phillipe, sorry about the delay...I was posting from work, and had forgotten the I've yet to change my issued password, so I couldn't post from home.

Last night, I did a clean install on my main computer at home. Using CM Mod Manager, I installed only the Mad Dog (no relation lol)Map Packs, MDMP1 and MDMP 2, along with the new sound mod. When I started a game, lo and behold, I had the same "bad" explosions...so I must apologize for the alacrity with which I was pointing the finger at JuJu's small arms mod. It appears that ANY mod loaded through CM Mod Manager will nerf the explosions, so I guess I'll just have to live without using CM Mod Manager as my mod installer..too bad, as I find it much easier to work with than CMMOS. That means I'll have to get CMMOS to work right, if I want to use mods.

Now, I have NO trouble getting the mods to work for CMBB...you just install the appropriate ruleset, then you can install the mod itself through CMMOS by double clicking it in the dialoge box...at which point, you'll see a very nice spiffy picture of the mod, and it will be added to the list of mods installed.

My understanding is that with CMBO, however, is that once you've installed the rulesets, you have to manually unzip the mod itself into the CMBO/BMP folder, and if the mod contains .WAVs as well, they need to go into the CMBO/WAV folder.

When installed correctly, the rulesets will generate the tabs for various things like tanks and terrain, and IF a mod is present, you can then click on one of the actual pictures to enable it in the game. (I don't know that I'm articulating it that well, but I *think* I have the principle figured out).

Here's a pic of what I see when I've got CMBB selected, looking at the Mods tab in CMMOS:


I can choose any of these mods, and actually see them in the game.

Now, with CMBO selected, there are only 2 mods listed, even though I have manually unzipped about a dozen of them. The only ones that seem to work are the ones that actually installed themselves by double clicking on them, or the exact same way all of the CMBB mods work.

I guess the first question is: will the mods actually work if I don't see them displayed in the Mods tab (configuration dialogue box)?

So far, I have installed the Allied, German, and terrain rulesets in CMMOS for CMBO. There are many tabs visible at this point. When I click on some of the tabs, I'll see little postage stamp sized pics of various things. Now, if I grasp the principle correctly, my seeing the little pics is NO indication that an actual mod is installed, right?

[ December 30, 2004, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: teotwawki1 ]

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CMBO CMMOS is older than CMBB CMMOS, so the mod configuration panel that you posted doesn't get used in CMMOS 4.03. And yes, it is one of the nicer features of the later version of CMMOS.

So the bad news with 4.03 is you'll have to do the installation process (relatively) manually. To figure out what is going on you have to rely entirely on the icons -- are they there, and if they are there, are they greyed out or not.

It has been so long since I installed CMBO CMMOS that I must admit I can't remember if the rules and rulesets are bundled together, but I think they may have been. So it's not as bad as it sounds. Gordon liked to put self-extractors into everything, so just remember to download the rulesets from the top of each section (ignore me if I'm having a memory lapse) and install them before you start copying and pasting in the bmp's. The music files are in MP3 form to save space and will have to be converted, but I seem to recall writing a detailed set of instructions for how to do that in the readme files when I was younger and more intelligent. It's not hard to do at all, and some of that music no longer exists on the web.

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Okay...since I last posted, I've installed a boatload of mods, and they all seem to work, AND my explosions are normal. For the most part, if I see a pic in CMMOS with CMBO active, it does mean the mod is actually installed (it's slightly different for CMBB,but I seem to have gotten things sorted out, by the fact that I can see my CMBO mods in the actual game).

Now, let's try something specific. I like the Mad Dog Newsound mod, and some of the 3rd party explosion and smoke mods. How difficult is it to install these using CMMOS, and avoiding CM Mod Manager altogether? In one of your earlier post you mentioned it being rather difficult...so I'm guessing there may be some work involved at my end getting them to work correctly.

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The problem with the mods that you mention, of course, is that they haven't been set up for CMMOS. But I'm assuming that what you are really asking me is how to convert a non-CMMOS mod to CMMOS.

The first thing you have to be aware of is that sound mods are tricky. Gordon only included the sound capability as an afterthought after I bugged him for a couple of months because I wanted to change the intro music, and do exactly what you're proposing to do. The danger is that you'll go crazy setting the thing up, and the program won't recognize the change because it involves sound. When that kind of thing would happen Gordon would then tweak the program, and like magic it would work.

I only mention this because it is a potential issue that doesn't exist when you're swapping bmp's.

The first thing that you do when making a cmmos conversion is to plan the whole thing out: what's it going to look like when you're done.

In this case you're going to have a bunch of rules for swapping explosion sounds, so you need to create a rule set called "Things that go bang" or something to that effect. Give it a very high and innocuous number, I would suggest 980.

So to be mind-numbingly explicit, make a folder called RuleSet980. Capitalize the S and don't use spaces.

Now go into CMMOS, pick a small Ruleset that you know works, open it up, and look at what's inside.

You'll see some icons, some description files, an info file, a credits file, and some rules.

Open a new Word file and name it Credits980. Write the names of the mods that you intend to use. Not a necessary step, but nice if it ever gets published, and it can help you keep track of what you're doing.

Next, open a new text file and name it Info980. Then, go into any other Ruleset that you know works, open its info file, and copy the content. Paste this content into the textfile named Info980. It will have three lines: change the second one to read #! RuleSet Name Things that go Bang. Don't worry about the other two lines for the moment. If later on you have problems, you can try playing around with the version numbers in the info files.

You now have a RuleSet with two files in it.

Start simply and only write the rules for one sound change. Medium explosions, for example.

You have to make icons for the original, for mdmp, and for father-of-none or whatever it is that you're planning on using.

This is your first time out. Don't go crazy making icons. Cheat. Grab some icons from one of the other rulesets. Make sure you also grab the disabled versions of the icons as well. So if you grab four icons, you've really got eight. Rename them. As an example, one of your icon pairs might be named MDMP and MDMP_disabled. Use as few letters as possible in the names of the icons -- you'll thank yourself later on and these names won't appear anywhere.

There are two kinds of rules in a ruleset: regular and advanced. I don't think that advanced rules work with sound mods, so you can forget about them for the moment. We're just going to worry about regular rules.

Pick a Ruleset that you know works. Come to think of it, pick the "Hills are Alive" ruleset because we know it works with sound mods. That should probably be the source of your info file, by the way.

Grab a rule and a description file from Ruleset 550. Don't grab a rule numbered 000 to use as a model, because they sometimes invoke a special feature in the program that you don't want to use.

Put the rule and the description file in Ruleset980 and rename them. For the sake of argument let's say they're called Description980-201 and Rule980-201. Be careful: that's a hyphen and not an underscore between the 0 and the 2, and there are no spaces anywhere. Spaces are your worst enemy, because the program reads them as an entry and they're effectively invisible.

Change the text of the description file to whatever you want it to say. You'll be staring at this text every time you hit the icon, so it should say something intelligible and useful.

Now change the text of Rule980-201.

The first line is the version #. Leave it alone for now.

The second line is the mod name. Change it, but don't use periods or hit enter at the end of the line. And keep it short. Something like MDMP medium explosion should do.

The third line is critical. It tells the program what files to look for. You have to change it without introducing any stray strokes or spaces that the program will try to read. You have to change #! Files Sounds_Opening_video_music.txt to read #! Files Sounds_Medium_explosions.txt. You get this last bit of information by looking in the FileLists folder. There's a potential problem here, in that if you can't find a sound file listing in the file list, you may not be able to add one and get the program to read it. I don't know because I haven't experimented with it lately. You can usually get the program to read new file list text files for bmp's, but that's because wav files work differently than bmp's in the program. So there still is some ability to roll your own. The problem is that Gordon has retired and isn't around to make the program accept new changes.

The next line should read #! Icon blank.bmp, but instead of "blank" use whatever name you used for the corresponding undisabled icon. Once again, spaces are your worst enemy because the program will try to read them as intentional entries.

The next line will read something like #! Key 00005010_line.wav. The number section should be the first number from the series of medium explosions (00000209), and I would suggest using the mdmp extension for the mdmp material to be consistant, so the line will now read #! Key 00000209_mdmp.wav. This line is a major source of things not getting read by the program, and is what makes the icon switch from disabled to enabled. If the program finds a file with exactly that name, you're in business. There's a workaround in the event that the name just won't take, but you don't need that now and it may not work in sound mods.

The next line will read #! Options 1. No need to change it.

This is where the fun begins. For sound mods the next part is very simple, but on bmp mods you can get very creative. Fortunately we're keeping it simple and boring.

The next line will read #@ MDMP Medium Explosions (or something like that). It's just the name of the mod.

The line after that will read _mdmp. This is where you tell the CMMOS program what extension to look for.

With this information the program will look for the file numbers listed in the textfile mentioned in an earlier line, and convert any file with those file numbers and the extension you just mentioned into the operative file.

Now that you have the rule for the ruleset, don't forget to modify the target wave file by adding the cmmos extension. This can be done manually one file at a time or with whole groups of files using the Gordon's bmp munge (something he whipped up after I complained about how tedious it was to put extensions on all those grass files). Directions for using the munge can be found in one of the CMMOS readme files.

Truth in advertising. It's been so long since I've converted a sound mod that I can't remember whether you can get the program to switch a series of sounds (e.g. all of the medium explosions listed in the sound file), or whether you have to do them one at a time. Given the nature of sound files I would think that one at a time is preferable. I spent two weeks comparing sounds category by category until I made my final selection, which, I will admit, I didn't put into CMMOS. I ended up using whole sound groups from different mods so that you could distinguish the sound of a heavy from a medium tank, for example. The only sound that I did a one-ff switch on was the light vehicle jeep sound. I hate that sound in CMBO, it's much too loud. I ended up taking one that I found in a CMBB or CMAK sound mod (can't remember which), though if I had been smart (and less lazy), I would have just thrown the MDMP/BTS original into a sound editor and cranked down the volume.

If you decide after seeing this that you don't want to make a sound conversion, don't despair. Sound is tricky, and everything that I've described for the sound mod will work for bmp's. Actually, it will work better -- because I'm still making CMBO Rulesets, I'm just not publishing them (and that's why I'm stuck using 4.03)

By the way, MikeT's 4.05 works a bit more like CMBB CMMOS, though the rulesets were not as extensively tested as 4.03.

[ December 30, 2004, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Philippe ]

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Hmmm...thought I replied already...must have backed out before I hit the submit button...oh well.

Thanks for the very detailed reply...it looks pretty complicated, and the chances of me doing it right are negligible lol.

I'd be quite content if I could just get the damn sound mod to work through CM Mod Manager; everything else I need I got to work in CMMOS. Well, I can live w/o the sound pack if it comes to it.

The CM series has to be God's gift to the wargaming crowd...I have played this game for hours, just creating stupid little scenarios and then just playing/tweaking them. A hearty thanks to Battlefront for putting them out, and to folks like you who take the time to help others when they need it. You've gone above and beyond the call on this one, so many thanks are in order!

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At the end of the day I think the individual sounds (bangs, booms, and engine noises) are probably better handled the old-fashioned way.

The last time I reviewed my sounds I put all the different sound mods into folders and sorted them by category. The file lists in CMBO were very helpful for that. I made a copy of the wav folder, broke it up into categories, and started listening to the sounds, one by one, until I had worked up the right mix. Not every part of every mod will be the best, but you usually can't mix within categories too much. For example, if you have three or four explosion sounds, they're supposed to form a progression of softer to louder bangs. If you stick someone else's explosion into the series it will sound out of place. This isn't just an ear-candy issue, because you are often forced to judge what you are getting bombarded with based on the relative loudness of the incoming (and how big the craters are). Sticking a really neat explosion into the middle of somebody else's series will throw the who thing out of whack. On the other hand, sometimes a sound in a series is too pronounced (like the jeep engine noise) or not pronounced enough. So enhancing the sound forces you to create your own mix and to become a bit of an editor just to use other people's mods.

I had originally planned to do exactly the conversion mod you were talking about. But after I went through this process again about a year ago I decided that it was too much trouble. CMMOS is meant for switching in and out of mods -- with sound, once you've got things correctly balanced, you won't want to mess with it. So you're better off just creating a back-up folder of the original wav's, folders for the pristine version of the sound mods you're looking at (don't forget to go to Tom's site -- it's back up and has really great sounds), a folder or two with the edited versions, one with the final edit, and that final edit is also what you use in your game folder.

Another way of looking at it is that writing rules and rulesets is a full-time job, and if you just want to get your-self up and running, it is not an efficient way to go. Only use CMMOS for what you really need it for -- do the other changes manually, or look into McMMM.

I haven't used that particular mod manager, but from what I hear you might find it useful. You can find it at CMMODS, and it works with zipped files. It doesn't handle options well (that's CMMOS' specialty), and can only install non-CMMOS mods (amazing how many people don't understand that), but it should be quite effective used in tandem with CMMOS. Don't know if it handles wav files, though.

By the way, if you followed the process of writing a ruleset and a rule, you'll be able to debug just about anything that ever goes wrong with CMMOS.

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Well, as a postscript, I tempted fate, and went ahead and loaded the new sound mod through CM Mod Manager....it worked, and did NOT nerf any graphics that I can see. So in the end, I guess I really did get what I want...but don't tell Jagger/Richards, as I don't want to render their fine little ditty moot.

(cue the music...acoustic guitar opening riff lol).

Now, if I can just figure out why I could not d/l from Combat Mission HQ last night at home. Ah, computers...it's always something. Other than CM, and Half Life 2 right now, I spend way more time on the Xbox for simplicity's sake. It's nice not having to worry about crashes, etc. If only we could get CM on Xbox...oh well, in another lifetime maybe!

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