Rommel Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Ok so in last defense i've got a german mechanized infantry soldier as a prisoner. 1: are they as hard to capture as in the demo, seems these are the troops hitler wanted, fight to the death and all that. 2: what information about the enemy will be given from prisoners? 3: any other stuff about prisoners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 For prisoners, I think that you only recieve more victory points at the end for them. I am not totally sure about this though. The reason you only captured 1 German prisoner in the Last Defence is most probably due to the fact that the Americans were defending. Plus, those fanatics (Regulars, Veterans, and Elite) usually take the stand or die rule more to heart than Constripts and Green troops. It is much harder to capture enemies when on the defence than on the attack. This is purely on the idea that a Defender is usually static, resulting in less envelopment moves which usually bag most of the prisoners. Whereas, the attacker is mostly on the move, bypassing enemy forces, and attacking an enemy with larger numbers resulting in the defender surrendering more often. Check out the 'Alpha Battle AAR!!! A Classic' at TGN's Combat Mission HQ. When on the attack you get a VAST number more prisoners on the defence. The only information you recieve from prisoners is Name, Rank, and Serial Number (or Cereal number?) One interesting thing though. I once captured American forces who were wandering through the forest and stumbled upon my ambush in the Random Encounter scenario. However, soon enough Americans came near resulting in this unit getting enough nerve back to rejoin it's friends (this all happened in 1 turn, resulting in me not being able to move my prisoners around). However, it still counted as me capturing an enemy unit, even though they escaped. This means, that I could capture a single unit over and over and still keep on getting points for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted December 7, 1999 Author Share Posted December 7, 1999 ah but in every book by any german commander or american, prisoners were a vital source of enemy troop information. Sure in theory only your serial number, name and rank but in reality most people spilled their guts. True about the defense thing, but would have to argue against the elite, vetrans etc following the to the death thing, if anything the germans were very willing to give up if the situation was hopeless. In fact in north africa when a patrol would be ambushed often the ambushed would simply surrender, and the germans and british had an ongoing aggreement that they radio'd each other to see if so and so was captured. This information gathered from "panzer commander: by Col.von luck" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>ah but in every book by any german commander or american, prisoners were a vital source of enemy troop information. Sure in theory only your serial number, name and rank but in reality most people spilled their guts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Most people spilled their guts, because they weren't trained to deal with captivity. The US military didn't begin training of that sort until after Vietnam. However, they tended to spill their guts after the intel folks got ahold of them, and is really out of the scope of CM. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>True about the defense thing, but would have to argue against the elite, vetrans etc following the to the death thing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> One of Manstein's many big victories (4th battle of Kharkov) was set up by the elite SS panzer corps retreating rather than following that "to death thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 1. Breaking prisoners happened but NOT in 3 or 4 minutes in the middle of a firefight . 2. I've captured close to 20 elite UK airborne troops using a German traffic police company in a scenario so it CAN be done. The key is to confront one squad of the enemy with a HUGE amount of overwhelming firepower. Then they will surrender.. Most people are only doing little attacks instead of massive pincer movements which will convince the enemy to surrender. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted December 7, 1999 Author Share Posted December 7, 1999 but what about intel? sure not in the 3 or 4 mintues of an engagement but like in a operation where you are victorious in one section of the map (as i understand how the maps work) inbetween the time for the next one, then you could break prisoners. And hey doesn't every regiment has their friendly gestapo or OSS representative? couldn't they do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 LOL, not like you're thinking Rommel. In any case what would "You're facing the 17th SS PzGrenadier regiment" do for you? They might be reinforced by tanks by the time you next attack ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted December 7, 1999 Author Share Posted December 7, 1999 true but if a prisoner broke down and said like he knew that there were 3 88mm at guns in the area or something like that, not specific positions but unit types and proximity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Rommel, think about it like this. 10 minutes into the battle, you manage to capture a few prisoners, probably only a few privates. I am pretty darned sure that they won't have the positioning for the major strike against your left flank fresh in their memory, or even in their memory at all. Most soldiers aren't told their objectives let alone other unit's objectives. Sure, they might be told, "take that hill/House/Forest", but, beyond that, they probably don't know anything else. Still, if you just managed to capture some prisoners, and you are in the middle of an attack or defense, your main priority is continuing on with your objectives. You send the prisoners back to Divisional or Corps HQ to drill out information. Ever wonder why the take no prisoners call is used? Usually not for vengeance, but, it slows down your advance. Any information you could get from prisoners at the moment of capture is probably stuff you already know, like, the goal, composition, and experience of that particular unit. I am not trying to flame you, it is a good question you raise. I am only trying to get an adequate explanation for it ;-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted December 7, 1999 Author Share Posted December 7, 1999 now come on, take no prisoners? Guess that was something that was left out of the army field manual. And honestly to say all prisoners are gonna be privates is kinda stretching it too. But regardless even a private who was marching down the road and sees a 88mm setting up, or maybe rode to the battle on the back of a panther, would know information that would be valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted December 7, 1999 Author Share Posted December 7, 1999 btw look at scenario reisburg, in the front description it says prisoners that were picked up earlier were from a different division, its already saying information received from prisoners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Rommel, 1. Major Tom didn't say ALL prisoners would be privates as you seem to suggest. He merely said most would probably be privates who would know sweet FA. And he's right in that. 2. Scenario briefing gives info from prisoners. That scenario briefing took place at battalion level and that's where that info was derived. To say that battalion-level intelligence assets gave info from prisoner interrogations and to think that has ANY implication on what happens in a firefight is way out in left field as you Americans seemingly say. 3. Accept it Rommel, it ain't gonna happen. a) I don't think it'd be realistic and I think it would be abused if put in and c) It's too late for CM1 anyways. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWorthing Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 about the "take no prisoners" thing... Soldiers would be sent to take prisoners back but they would be told to come back in 5 minutes. They couldn't reach the rear in 5 minutes so the prisoners would be shot and the soldier(s) would return in 5. Also, remember the scene in Private Ryan where one of their guys got killed taking out the mg nest and they captured a german? Veterans said that sometimes they would just shoot them because the enemy would surrender after killing some of their guys or they would surrender because they ran out of ammo but the enemy already killed (or wounded) their guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted December 8, 1999 Share Posted December 8, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>about the "take no prisoners" thing... Soldiers would be sent to take prisoners back but they would be told to come back in 5 minutes. They couldn't reach the rear in 5 minutes so the prisoners would be shot and the soldier(s) would return in 5.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Depends on what the standing orders were for prisoners. It could change from situation to situation. From what I remember, at least the airborne divisions that participated in Overlord were given a standing "Take No Prisoners" for 3 days order before taking off. The funny thing was that they didn't really say what to do with enemy troops that surrendered. Some were shot, some were disarmed and sent on their way, and some were taken prisoner by units that didn't want to carry out executions. [This message has been edited by Compassion (edited 12-07-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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