Guest Scott Clinton Posted October 31, 1999 Share Posted October 31, 1999 First off...great game. As I have stated elsewhere if this game is not wargame of the year you guys have been screwed. Now for the grumblings (its why you came here right? ) 1.) Tank path-finding: Better than in CC3 that is for sure, but...I still have a problem when I plot a path close to (NOT IN I check!) woods. The tank will move close then start a little reversal dance. After the replay I can go back and see where the AI has altered my path by adding a reversal section and a few others. If CM does not like my path because it is too close to the trees then is should not allow me to plot it to begin with, or modify it during the planning stage. And once more for the record: I checked with the LOS tool every 5m or so along the path and it was NOT in the woods. 2.) Walls: I noticed this is an actual terrain type. What is the difference from having a unit IN the "wall" as opposed to having them directly behind the "wall" in "open terrain" in regards to cover/concealment? 3.) Green troops s*ck! 4.) Any chance we could get some info when the 'spotting' rounds start to fall. I would think that in real life they would be a kind of heads up as to the impending maelstrom. Sometimes they would be in the same turn as the arty fire sometimes a turn or two before...maybe CM2? 5.) Green troops s*ck! 6.) It seems that if I have an existing plot path and add to the end of the path my units always pause. I would think that if the time it took my unit to reach the beginning of the last leg (newest plot) was LONGER than my command delay then they should not have to pause at all. I may be wrong about this if so straiten me out. 7.) Green troops really s*ck! ! ! 8.) I had a half-track abandoned when a .50 cal. fired at a squad in front of it. Problem was that the squad was on the other side of the stone building...so was the .50 cal. How could .50 cal fire have passed through the stone building and damaged the halftrack. I double checked no other units fired anywhere near the half track and LOS when through the stone building with a wide margin of cover for the half track. Bug? Thanks! ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard [This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 10-31-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted October 31, 1999 Share Posted October 31, 1999 Scott, How can you possibly say Green troops suck? Just kidding. You must agree that they accurately reflect Green rifle companies ushered to the front for slaughtering. I know under the same circumstances I would perform worse. Sincerely, Richard Kalajian The Non-grumbling Non-Grognard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted October 31, 1999 Share Posted October 31, 1999 Scott, about green troops: in the thread titled "Long Odds" I recount watching green infantry stop the US advance on Riesberg COLD. It's all about movin' and shootin.' Never let more than 2, 3 MAX, enemy units shoot at any of your squads; have somewhere for them to go before it gets too hot. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 31, 1999 Share Posted October 31, 1999 Hi Scott, Someone sent us that post from cdmag. The way you put it totally cracked us up. So thanks for the voice of support AND the good chuckle 1. I'll check with Charles, but if you aren't trying to go through impassible terrain it shouldn't override you (unless being shot at). Ooooo, there is *one* exception. What speed was your tank going at the time? Could be that its path got a bit mucked up at the wrong time because of trying to take turns too quickly in too tight of a spot. Just a thought. 2. You must be BEHIND the wall, not on it. Think of this as you would real life. Standing/sitting on or in front of a wall does nothing for you. Behind the wall by a couple of meters is good, but the further back you go the less good it gets. Also, if someone comes from around the side of the wall... uhoh! 3. Good thing I didn't give you guys Conscripts Talk about useless!! 4. Charles and Paul V (I think) are having a long discussion about this in another thread. I'm not even going to try and top that one 5. Hey, didn't I see this one before Doug, you might have been aided by "Fanaticism". I made the Germans have a 20% chance of that in the Riesberg scenario. Sounds like a couple of your guys got a bit of a helping hand! Of course, you aren't supposed to know this 6. We thought about this, but you could easily cheat your way around the C&C limits by simply plotting big leaps ahead of time. Your units need SOME time to get their act collected, so we enforce a manditory penalty after each set of orders. If you want your guys to go for it in one try, then plot a really long and complex path that takes your unit to the end destination you want them to occupy. 7. Hmmmm dejavu! 8. Could have been a bug, but I doubt it. The LOS stuff has been play tested for months with only one or two minor special case problems coming up (mostly with spotting, not firing). With all the careful testing that is going on I would think something like this would have been found. So I can't say what happened, but I am sure there is a logical explanation for it. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 31, 1999 Share Posted October 31, 1999 Scott, 1. WAIT until you see conscripts.. With these guys its a case of "Send them to the rear so they don't surrender the first time they see the enemy." 2. Tanks.. Two things come to mind. a) If you plot a movement path so CLOSE to the SIDE of a wood such that one side of the tank will have to pass through trees to get there to AI will run it into the woods, stop, reverse and go around.. Try plotting your path so the tank has enough space to pass the wood by. You took a turn at too high a speed. It has happened to me before but now I'm used to it I slow down for turns in wooded terrain (or better yet, I use the rotate command). 8. Was the 0.5 cal on a higher elevation? 3D Scott . 0.5 cals can shoot DOWN onto HTS hiding behind other terrain features. Nasty but excellent feature. Ps. For the record I've stopped an attack by 1 company of Veteran paratroops using 2 platoons of conscripts, some imaginative terrain and a couple of long-range MGs. It can be done BUT its very, very difficult and needs nerves of steel. (I had 1 conscript MG42 team surrender after 5 seconds of enemy fire and 1 casualty :-( ) ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorsten Posted October 31, 1999 Share Posted October 31, 1999 I had an even more interesting thing happen to me. There were two enemy shermans adjacent to each other, and my panzerschreck was firing at the first one. Well one round fell in between the tanks, which I thought was particularly odd. I checked more thoroughly, and found that the round went over the first tank, but somehow detonated on or underneath the tread opposite the one facing the schreck. That's where the crater appeared anyway. For this to happen realistically, the round would have to have had an almost vertical decent angle. The range was pretty long, about 140-160 meters, but I still don't think it should have happened. Unfortunately, there's no way for me to recreate that. I wish I could show you somehow. Thorsten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 31, 1999 Share Posted October 31, 1999 I am sure this isn't a LOS or LOF bug. If you scaled the vehilces down to 1:1 scale things might have looked a little differently. One of the negative side effects of larger vehicles is that somethings look like they are going straight through, but are in fact going to one side or over the top. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted October 31, 1999 Share Posted October 31, 1999 The tank AI thing... Speed. Thats it guys. I had my Shermans at full throttle. Did not think about that...I assumed they would slow by themselves for the turn. As for the .50 it was on the ground floor I am certain because I over-ran it the next turn. I also know for sure it fired through the stone building (I could not count the number of times I watched it play back). There windows on BOTH sides of the buildings...could it have fired in one side and out the other? ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorsten Posted November 1, 1999 Share Posted November 1, 1999 "I am sure this isn't a LOS or LOF bug. If you scaled the vehilces down to 1:1 scale things might have looked a little differently. One of the negative side effects of larger vehicles is that somethings look like they are going straight through, but are in fact going to one side or over the top. " I guess I should have made myself more clear. The vehicles were on a 1:1 scale and I checked it from several camera angles. The round could not have gone around the side unless it turned 120 degrees in flight. The tank was at about a 60 degree angle to my schreck, facing to the schreck's left. The crater appeared underneath the track opposite the schreck. In realistic scale, it was about 3 or 4 feet from the back of the track. The only way it could have gotten there was to have a vertical descent angle, or if it had somehow ricocheted off of the tank behind the one targeted. Anyway, it was an unusual occurrence that I doubt I'll ever see repeated. Thorsten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 1, 1999 Share Posted November 1, 1999 Thorsten, two thoughts. 1. If you see something like that send me a screencapture of it so I can have a good look at it and see if its a bug or if there's an explanation. 2. Are you sure no artillery or other schreck teams were firing at the time? Some people have gotten confused by confusing arty shorts with schreck rounds. Arty can land a LONG way from where it was targetted anjd it is possible an arty shell hit there at the same time the schreck landed elsewhere. I've seen people make mistakes because of that before. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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