Berlichtingen Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Has anyone managed to knock out a Hellcat with artillery in actual game play? I have tried repeatedly to bombard the Hellcats and have yet to take one out. On the otherhand, HTs seem to be easy targets for mortars. Tonight, I setup a test (hotseat) to see if it could be done. In 5 attempts the best result I got was one Hellcat destroyed. That is 1 Hellcat in 5 attempts. In the test, I move all three Hellcats together in the open. I then targeted the area with all three German batteries. Also in the test, I massed three HTs in the open. That resulted in three dead HTs 5 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Balaban Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Berlichtingen In my opinion is that the HT has the driver and passengers exposed more then the Hell Cat. Thinner armor, open windows, wider top, more exposer to the under carriage to destroy. Not every hit is a direct hit to take a vehicle out. But I am no expert in the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 gotta agree, remember the hellcat just was better armored, i mean a hit to the side of the hellcat wouldn't knock it out, while the same would with a spw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Actually you're all wrong. The simple reason is that the weapons systems used are different. A 60mm mortar can be targeted AT a specific vehicle so that the crew corrects fall with the aim of landing a round on the vehicle. An FO is only aiming to get a round within 20 or 50 metres of a certain point. The specific artillery gun firing the shell can't correct its aim based on the hit location of the previous shell. If the Germans had on-map mortars you'd kill more hellcats. As it is you aren't comparing like with like. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted December 7, 1999 Author Share Posted December 7, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>A 60mm mortar can be targeted AT a specific vehicle so that the crew corrects fall with the aim of landing a round on the vehicle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ok, that's a reasonable answer... to a point. My only problem with this comes from my military experience. When I was in the Marines, I was an FO for 81mm mortars, and as far as I can tell, the mortars themselves and the method of calling & correcting a fire mission haven't changed much from WWII. Tubes aimed "over open sights" and tubes called for by an FO are about equally accurate (or inaccurate depending on your point of view). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted December 7, 1999 Author Share Posted December 7, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>A 60mm mortar can be targeted AT a specific vehicle so that the crew corrects fall with the aim of landing a round on the vehicle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ok, that's a reasonable answer... to a point. My only problem with this comes from my military experience. When I was in the Marines, I was an FO for 81mm mortars, and as far as I can tell, the mortars themselves and the method of calling & correcting a fire mission haven't changed much from WWII. Tubes aimed "over open sights" and tubes called for by an FO are about equally accurate (or inaccurate depending on your point of view). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 The M-18 is a lightly armored, very fast tank destroyer with a big gun (76mm, right?). But of course, you all know that. Though not as well armored as the Wolverine, it is still far above a Half track. Being open topped should make it more vulnerable to fragmentation I would think... ------------------ Dirctor of Scenario Design, The Gamers Net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Berlichtingen, I must disagree. Against a moving target I think that a mortar which has LOS to the target can make corrections MUCH more quickly than an FO-controlled mortar and thus would end up being more accurate. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonS Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Yes, but Fionn, in the test the Hellcats WEREN'T MOVING. You know, the old like-with-like thing Jon ------------------ Quo Fas et Vino du Femme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Yes, I've managed to do both in the Last Def. scenario. I've knocked out a Hellcat with German mortars at least 3 times. I've also knocked out German HT's at least 2-3 times as well w/ US mortar teams. 1 or 2 of the HT's were even moving at a moderate speed. Bottom line is a mortar team w/ direct LOS to a target, especially one that is not moving, is down right deadly. Apprently the German one's w/ FO's are as well. My conclusion is that it must be pretty easy to correct mortar fire vs. the bigger stuff, although I don't know if it really is easier, or not. I can guarantee you a team w/ a direct LOS to a target can correct fire very easily and quickly though. Mike D. aka Mikester [This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 12-07-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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