wolf66 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I tried with a blast command through the undergrowth but nothing, they just move - I tried with giving a area fire command but they just fire weapons and throw the occasional grenade but don't use a satchel .... I need to clear a path for my AFVs ... it would seem like the pioneers should be capable of this or otherwise they are a little useless without mine fields ..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 No, you can't. As for why not, I suggest volunteering on a trail cutting crew to learn what it actually takes to cut even a footpath through heavy undergrowth and dense trees. It's hard, slow work. I used to do it a fair amount in my younger years. Cutting path wide enough for a vehicle like a tank would take much longer. You can drop trees with explosives if you set the charges right (this does take time; you can't just slap a chunk of C4 on a large tree and knock it over). But then you'll end up with a jumble of fallen tree trunks and stumps, which will probably make an even more effective tank barrier than the upright trees did. You'll have to cut up the tree trunks and move them aside, which is time consuming manual work, even if you have a good chainsaw and winch available. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 If you could clear a path expeditiously, you could probably drive the tank through in the first place... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger73 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 <snipped> .... I need to clear a path for my AFVs ... it would seem like the pioneers should be capable of this or otherwise they are a little useless without mine fields ..... I disagree. Well stocked Sappers are your best friends in urban combat. If you could clear a path expeditiously, you could probably drive the tank through in the first place... I concur completely. When AFV's could bull there way through a prickly area, dismounted personnel and wheeled vehicles were happy to follow. Not feasable in terrain too dense. In effect, a Construction Engineer company could build you a road but a Combat Engineer group would not. Entirely different TOE's for entirely different missions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf66 Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Thanks guys. I wonder why I always get these Panzer Engineers on maps with lots of woods and no urban areas ..... maybe those satchels are there only for .... ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf66 Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 And I am talking about very small strips of undergrowth with maybe on or two trees between them, not dense woods areas ..... but you guys made valid points .. if you want to check out what I mean, it is the CMRT Firebrigabe Van Saucken map and it is on the far left side of the german setup area move along that map edge far towards the road objective .... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 They're also useful for breaching wire, walls, hedges, and bocage. Tanks can cross (and destroy) low walls, wire and hedges on their own by simply bulling through, but usually incur a step or two of track damage when doing so. If I have demo charges to burn, sometimes I'll blow gaps in these minor obstacles just to avoid degrading my tanks' running gear. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf66 Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 They're also useful for breaching wire, walls, hedges, and bocage. Tanks can cross (and destroy) low walls, wire and hedges on their own by simply bulling through, but usually incur a step or two of track damage when doing so. If I have demo charges to burn, sometimes I'll blow gaps in these minor obstacles just to avoid degrading my tanks' running gear. And thats what confuses me, I can blow a hole in the bocage with is visually far more "unpenetrable" as those light undergrowth areas unpassable for AFVs ..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf66 Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Anyways, just for fun I will try to shoot a clear path with a few Tigers with area fire ... let's see if that works ...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 And thats what confuses me, I can blow a hole in the bocage with is visually far more "unpenetrable" as those light undergrowth areas unpassable for AFVs ..... With bocage, you are breaching a point. Clearing heavy woods tiles would involve taking down trees, cutting trees up, removing cut trees and undergrowth, then probably leveling some areas, i.e. the work of construction engineers, not combat engineers. Anyways, just for fun I will try to shoot a clear path with a few Tigers with area fire ... let's see if that works ...... It won't, just like it wouldn't in real life. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf66 Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Anyways, just for fun I will try to shoot a clear path with a few Tigers with area fire ... let's see if that works ...... Well it didn't 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 And I am talking about very small strips of undergrowth with maybe on or two trees between them, not dense woods areas ..... Since it's not dense woods, it's not impassable to tanks in the first place. Or it's a marsh and therefore impassable and beyond the useful intervention of any battlefield asset. However, it does sound like you're working on poor assumptions to start with. First, are you sure the place you're describing is actually impassable? Select a tank, choose a movement order and hover the mouse cursor over the terrain: is it showing a different "no go" icon? Then it's impassable. If the cursor allows you to place a waypoint there, it's not impassable. The number of trees showing has no effect on the impassability of the Action Spot. Only the terrain type of the underlying tile does. Since the TacAI would struggle to plot wiggly movement tracks round every tree, the game penalises movement tracks that do have the body of the vehicle intersect the location of actual tree trunks by slowing them down, but tanks can drive through even the densest forest, if the underlying terrain type is not Marsh or Heavy Woods. Conversely, those Marsh and Heavy Woods tiles are impassable even if they have no trees sticking out of them. And thats what confuses me, I can blow a hole in the bocage with is visually far more "unpenetrable" as those light undergrowth areas unpassable for AFVs ..... To breach a bocage, you just need to scatter a lot of earth and sturdy bushes which collectively provide a barrier. Once an appropriate charge has been employed, there's some debris to drive over. To clear even one tree, a swiftly-deployed explosive charge is merely a good substitute for a chainsaw to drop the trunk. It'll take a little more thought and time to explosively reduce the timber to sawdust. You're left with a log. While, technically, Heavy Forest tiles don't have to have trees on them to be impassable, the design intent is that they mostly will. The assumption is that there will be enough of them that demolitions on the timescale of a CM game will not be adequate to clear the spot enough for tanks to pass. Sometimes designers use Heavy Woods or Marsh to make sections of Bocage impossible to breach for vehicle transit. Demo charges are magical beasties that have the Schroedinger potential to be, at need, several different types of specialist explosive: mouseholing charge; bangalore torpedo; hand-delivered, chuckable AT mine; satchel charge; frame charge; 50kg Bocage Buster. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that they're also 150m of det cord, but winding that around the fallen trees to turn them into flinders that won't inconvenience a tank isn't a 15s job. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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