Questions for Martin (Allied) #2

[Moon]

Hmmm... possible that the Sherman was bogged down, but I doubt it. The impact from the HE shell from the Panther was exactly at the time that my Sherman got immobile. Besides that - normally in the unit interface the message "bogged down" (can't remember the right word) appears first before the tank would become immobile for good. Besides that, in a book I am recently reading (On the front lines by John Ellis) the author mentiones that later versions of the Sherman were actually not bad at all on snow, because they had rubber-plated tracks that provided more grip. And according to Steve, the Sherman has also a fairly good PSI (ground pressure) ratio.

As to the .50 cal - yep, I have seen halftracks being knocked out because of .50 cal fire in CM in an earlier game I test-played against Fionn (and I know that they were knocked out because they were mine )

But in the current game I haven't noticed any particular effect yet. However, this doesn't mean that they had NO effect so far -the fog of war doesn't make it easy to spot if not some of them lost their MG gunner, for example. I am fairly sure that none have been knocked out yet, though.

[This message has been edited by Moon (edited 08-27-99).]

[Guest Big Time Software]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>And according to Steve, the Sherman has also a fairly good PSI (ground pressure) ratio.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can check the PSI rating in the data window. Click your Sherman then press ENTER.

As for .50 cals versus halftracks - they're extremely deadly. If you're not seeing any such kills now it's only because you don't have a .50 cal in a firing position. We used to allow tank commanders to blaze away far too much with their roof-mounted .50 cal AAMGs, but we just cut back on this (ahistorical) ability so that could account for less .50cal fire going on compared to what you're used to from earlier versions of CM.

Charles

[Guest PatB_TGN]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I was under the impression that german halftracks were vulnerable to .50 cal machine gun fire.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A couple months ago I asked the same question about .50 cals vs. German Halftracks. Back when Charles had a few spare moments, he tossed this picture up. I've kept it. The link below will take you to the ballistic chart. You'll see just how effective the .50 truly is.

combathq.thegamers.net/images/mgvsht.jpg

-Patrick

[Dar]

Martin:

Just curious what your estimate is of Fionn's strength. Have you been able to count and classify the vehicles you're facing and establish an estimate of manpower?

(this is for my own kicks and giggles--I'll be asking Fionn in his thread, too)

Thanks,

Dar Steckelberg

[Pak40]

Martin,

Why do your bazooka men open up on halftracks at well over 100 meters? The maximum "effective" range of bazookas was something like 80-100 meters. anything longer than that was a "99%" miss, especially a moving target. Can't you tell them to hold fire until they're closer? Or do you need a HQ unit near the bazooka team to do this? If so, that's just completely ludicrous!

[Moon]

Dar -

I only know what I see and what I see is what my men down on the battlefield report back to me. I have possibly identified two tanks, the Panther and StuG. I can see/hear two more tanks coming down the road, but have no idea what this is. Could be anything, including just a very heavy very slow moving truck

I can see lots of halftracks around the whole battlefield. I haven't counted them really, but I would say something like two companies of motorized infantry.

In the town, I would assume maybe one or two platoons of infantry. I have identified one unit to be a veteran Fallschirmjäger unit, so I guess there will be at least one platoon worth of these... <gulp>

Pak40 -

the maximimum effective range of a bazooka in CM currently is 200 meters (says the in-game database). But you are right, the chances to hit anything at such long distance is close to 0%. And yes - moving targets ARE much harder to hit. Check out the turn when Fionns halftrack simply raced past two bazooka teams at full speed. They were firing at 50 meters and less a couple of times and still missed.

If you want to prevent your bazooka (and other units) from firing too early, you have to order them either to hide or to target an ambush point which can be pre-designated by an HQ unit. If you hide them, they will only open fire when something comes well within their killing range. That still doesn't mean that they will score a hit for sure, of course, only that they THINK they can take out the target. If you order them into ambush, they will hold fire until an enemy unit moves close to the ambush point (or until they lose their nerves, which is especially appropriate for green units).

In the current game I have told my bazooka teams to hide and hold their fire on most occasions. I say most because in a couple of spots (especially the road in the center), the closest cover by the road IS 80 meters away or more...

The only other times when they engaged targets at longer distances than, say, 80 meters, was when hiding was pointless since they had been spotted by infantry and under heavy fire. I guess that TacAI decided that going for the 1% hit chance was better than nothing - which makes sense to me.

[Guest Big Time Software]

We have had an internal debate about the effective range of bazookas. We have evidence, both first hand and historical study, that puts the zook's max range anywhere from 50m to 200m The max imperical range, BTW, is 400m. So at 100m or so, that is roughly 1/4th of its max range.

CM reflects am effective range of around 100m, which is the same as a Panzerschreck and more than the most common Panzerfaust (the PF 60). Units can be ordered to shoot further than this (up to 200m or so), but the TacAI won't probably go for more than 100m unless the shot looked fantastic (like a large vehicle sitting still). Number of rounds available also plays into things. The more ammo, the more the unit says "ah, why not see if we can hit it". At 100m this is not unreasonable.

IF you have some sources to cite so as to enter into the debate, we are all ears

Steve

[This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 08-27-99).]

[This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 08-27-99).]

[Pak40]

Thanks, Martin and Steve, for clearing that up. It all sounds reasonable.

At first it sounded like units would open fire if the enemy was within the maximum range, unless there was a HQ unit nearby. But I see now that is not the case.

I agree, Steve, that the bazooka's max range was well over 100 meters and the max effective range is about 100 meters. Sounds like what I've read from other sources.

BTW, would a Veteran bazooka typically wait until the target gets closer than say a green bazooka would? In other words, do veteran units set better ambushes?

[Guest Big Time Software]

Glad that cleared things up, but I am not sure how. That second paragraph of mine was really messed up! I was trying to answer emails, type the post, and drink beer all that the same time. I didn't spill a drop, but I think the post suffered

Yes, better units set better ambushes (all unit types). This is because units choose to fire when they think it is the best time. MANY factors are involved here, including range (very important), velocity of target, size of target, cover, etc. The more experienced the unit, the closer to the ideal firing time it will choose. A Green unit might actually spark up an ambush too soon and give the whole game away

Steve