Furchtlosundtrew Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hi there, some questions/suggestions regarding marching of units. 1. I often have the problem, that I defeat and destroy an enemy land unit, but can`t march into the tile, the enemy unit was before. The problem are not the action points. Let's make an example: I have three austrian corpses in Valjevo (serbia) and the tiles directly north-east and south-west of valjevo. One serbian corps stands directly adjacent in the hills in the south-east of Valjevo. The next serbian units are one tile behind in a line from Uzice to Kragujevac. Now I attack the first serbian corps with two of my three corpses to weaken it. With my last corps I destroy it. After the attack my corps hast remaining three action points. To move in the hill-tile where I destroyed the unit would cost me two points. Nevertheless I am not able to occupy the tile. What exactly is the reason for this??? 2. Is there any possibility to define the exact marching route of a unit? What i mean: If there is an unstaffend enemy city (town/mine/what ever) in front of a unit I often have to stop my march in the city or set the march in another direction i would normally do because otherwise my units don't marches throug city and doesn't occupy it. Often the way throug the city would not cost more action points... 3. A suggestion regarding forcemarching: would it make sense to allow forcemarching into enemy territory? You could sanction abuses (for example cavallery raids deep in unknown enemy territory) with very (!) bad combat penalties if you face an unexpected enemy unit. At least in some situations force marching into enemy territory would make sense. Imagine an enemy city, far behind the own lines surrounded by your troops. Now you destroy the unit holding the city. Every of your units around the city has spent all action points in fighting. But you have another corps five tiles away from the city. It would make sense to allow this corps a forcemarch into the free enemy city in my oppinion. What do you mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hi I suspect that the first point relates to a mixture of the terrain and the zone of control imposed by the surviving Serbian units on that point, as the zone of control effectively reduces your action points. On point 2, if you select a land or naval unit (but not an air unit) then hold down Ctrl on your keyboard, you should be able to select a movement path for it. Point 3 is an interesting one, and while I do agree that in some circumstances it would make sense, in others it would be far too exploitative and lead to crazy situations. For example, if you were able to destroy two adjacent enemy units on the western front, and there was no enemy behind them, then if you have sufficient reserves (especially cavalry) behind your lines, then being able to force march into enemy territory could lead to your forces being able to take lots of territory and towns and cities - far more in fact than would have been possible in real life. It's largely for this reason that we've limited forced march to moving on friendly territory, where your men will receive some resupply. One thing forced marching units can do already is to "capture" the empty tiles around where their move ends, and by having a number of units force marching in sequence it is possible to make the Germans get quite some way into Belgium and northeast France in the first turn or two in August 1914. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furchtlosundtrew Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hi Bill, thanks for your answer. ad 1.) OK. Can you explain me how exactly the zone of controll works? How many action points do I need t walk throug it? I belive the reason for this zone is, to prevent fast movement throug enemy lines isn't it? In my example it prevents already the approaching to an enemy line. Wouldn't it be better, to change the mechancis of this zone to the following: No extra costs to move into this zone but no possibility to move out of the zone again in the same turn (so an automatic stop while passing through the zone). In my opinion it would be a possibility... In this context I had a strange incident yesterday: Again the serbian front. My austrian cavallery unit in full supply stood in Temeschburg. The Mines in the north of Nisch where in serbian Hand but without a serbian unit. I was able to move my cavallerie there. But before I did, I used my recon bombers to scout the surroundig area and discovered the serbian HQ in Nisch. After knowing of this unit I could not longer move my cavallery into the mines (I think of the same reason, the zone of control). I reloaded the game to be shure and this time I moved my cavallery into the mines without scouting before and I reached it. So the zone of control has in this example only an effect, when I know it. May be it would be a possibility, that not every unit has a zone of control but only fighting units (detachements, corpses and Partisans on land but not HQs, air units and so on; every ship on the sea exceptional of transports and amphibious transports)? ad 2.) Thank you for your tip. I will test in the evening, how it works. ad 3.) I agree, that you could use forcemarching into enemy territorry as an exploit. But maybe there could be a compromise? An Idea would be, to limit forcemarching on enemy territory to the maximum of one enemy Tile. This would hinder to exploit it to deep brakethrougs but it would allow to handle the most problems especially the occupying of single tiles surrounded by own territory. Furchtlosundtrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hi 1) The zone of control acts as a penalty to movement, so moving into tiles under the influence of enemy units reduces your movement by 2 Action Points, and this also slows down movement moving across the front of enemy units. Here's the relevant section from the Manual: There is also a +2 action point penalty when attempting to move through tiles that have two or more enemy units adjacent to them. These movement costs and associated penalties are cumulative. They also apply to unit supply calculations and HQ attachment ranges. Additionally, each city or resource exerts a zone of control at the end of its turn by reclaiming each adjacent enemy tile that is not occupied by an enemy unit. In your second example, it is true that without knowledge of enemy positions, movement doesn't suffer from the same zone of control rules, though your cavalry unit did risk taking heavy casualties from a surprise contact when going for the mine, so sometimes the costs of making that sort of move significantly outweigh the benefits. Naval units don't exert zone of control, it's just for land combat. 3) I see what you mean and this might be something to think about, though I do feel that the extent to which I can currently use it to advance into enemy territory is generally about right. I'd be interested to hear more thoughts on this though, as if we were to make any changes they would have to work in all circumstances. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furchtlosundtrew Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 Hi Bill, ad 1.) OK, I think I understand the system. Thank you. In my example the anomaly is, that the unknown unit is a non-combat unit, so it can do no attack after the surprise contact, I can suffer no casualities. Maybe it would make sense, that only combat-units have a zone of control? Wouldnt't it make sense, to give naval units (at least battle-Ships and modernized Cruisers) a Zone of control too? In reality after a Sighting by one of these ships just a very fast ship would have been able to avoid a fight... ad 2.) OK, it does work. Thank you. ad 3.) I would be interested in other opinion at this point too. Or is it just me, who'd like to have a slight change of rules for forcemarching? Furchtlosundtrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefield Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 ad 3.) I would be interested in other opinion at this point too. Or is it just me, who'd like to have a slight change of rules for forcemarching? In strategy games, different realistic behaviors must be largely abstracted. So there will always be a realistic and a "gamy" approach of a unit behavior. In this case, I have understood "action points" as an abstract cruising speed, which is composed of a mix of mobility, transport capacity, terrain, weather, reconnaissance, condition and supplying of the unit. "Forcemarching" extended this mix with the abstracted atribut "speed at any cost" and and sets the value of the range of a unit prior to their safety. Therefore the forcemarching takes place by expending of maximum power and the consumption of all necessary recources without the formation of supply routes or reserves. All these are circumstances which would either not be represented for a unit in enemy territory or having too high a risk. Consequently, the forcemarching ends at the borders of its own territory. I'm not sure whether the current game engine already allows a kind of "combined march". When changing over to enemy territory remaining movement points of a "forced march" would be calculated back into regular action points. Deductions for the readiness and moral values of the relevant unit would result from the proportion of forcemarching... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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