Guest L Tankersley Posted November 26, 1999 Share Posted November 26, 1999 For those interested in another perspective on software distribution and what it means to small game companies, you might want to check out: http://www.bungie.com/inside/soapbox/soapbox896.shtml This is a rant by Alexander Seropian, CEO of Bungie Software, from over 3 years ago ranting about "Software Distribution Myths & Lies." Eye-opening stuff, if you weren't previously aware of how the industry works. Leland J. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted November 27, 1999 Share Posted November 27, 1999 I look at the publishing industry as one of the most evil endeavors in any field(not just for games.) I am currently looking for "an honest" publisher to do a magazine with, but you would be surprised on the contracts I have seen that they wanted me to sign. I understand on how BTS wants to keep their eggs in their own basket. Now I think that the game publishers are really making the markets for the small developers even smaller by rushing these games to the stores and still making them support the product after the fact. And the bigger companies are rushing out the games that need an average of 6 patches to even become playable. And if you tried to find another type of product that "releases" unfinished products that still need fixes after the fact, you would be hard pressed to find any due to the legal costs associated with the many lawsuits that follow. I mean you do not find many cars that even the wheels wont turn because of design flaws. My point is that they should pass some laws that protect us gamers from being ripped off in such a blatant fashion. And then maybe we will not get screwed by games that promise one thing and deliver something contrary to their advertising. I guess the old adage, "You get what you pay for," doesnt apply to gamers. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hough Posted November 27, 1999 Share Posted November 27, 1999 You definitely don't get cars that spin around and around every time you try to drive over a bridge... -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumbo Posted November 27, 1999 Share Posted November 27, 1999 Somebody asked about how many units wargames sell. Well these figures maybe a little out of date but ROUGHLY based on previous expereince I would expect CM to sell ~15,000- 20,000 units at retail if I was doing an assessment for a publisher today that is GOOD for a wargame by the way. Average wargames usually sell ~7000-10,000 units. At retail the developer would have a royalty of around 25% however the developer would have to earn back his advances first (for a game of this scope that would probably be $200-600,000). However that 25% is usually AFTER the retailer takes his 33%. Online wise BTS will make a bigger % but will take the hit on units sold. This hit of web ordering is getting less every year as consumers are getting used to the idea of ordering games online (thank UO and EQ for this trust of the web by the way). If I had to make a guess at how much BTS would make out of the game I would say 10,000 units at a 40% royalty at $50 each (about $20 a unit) comes to around $200,000 which is about enough to pay back the development fee. This breaking even with the advances is not uncommon in the gaming industry and usually only hits make money. The vast majority of games LOSE money some break even and a smaller % make money. Note these numbers are just GUESSES based on my expereince, I certainly hope BTS sells as many copies as CC4 or even more. But I hope that gives you a "feel" for how the industry works also you can see how piracy really hurts the developer. In one game I released 3 years ago we did a piracy test to see how many copies had been stolen vs bought (it was an online game that required you play on the server so this was easily done by comparing unit sales to clients played on server), the result was 7-1, IE: For every unit sold seven were pirated. No wonder UO without any piracy is the most profitable PC game in EA's history. Hope this helps, I havnt been involved in external development for 2 years so my figures amybe a little out of date. _dumbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted November 27, 1999 Share Posted November 27, 1999 One thing you must remember to keep in mind when you're talking about piracy is that most of the pple that owns an illegal copy would never buy the game in the first place. This might not be popular but with close combat 3 I pirated the game because I was so frustrated that I couldn't get my hands on it several weeks after the initial release. I told someone on the CC board and surprisingly they were totally sympathetic with me. I must also add that I had already ordered the game so I deleted the pirated version on arrival of the full version. I know many people pirating games buy the game to support the software house if it's good (+ you got a good looking box to add in your collection), some only uses it for a kind of super-demo to check it if it's worth buying or not and deletes it after one hour. But the bottom line is that piracy is theft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 27, 1999 Share Posted November 27, 1999 Dumbo, I think your estimates of figures are quite a bit off given what I know of the wargame side of the industry. 1. Your estimate of total sales in retail is very low. Some wargames which were flops have sold more than that . Of course the perception of wargames selling poorly is widespread which is unfortunate, 2. Some of your estimates of cost and royalty payments are also way off IMO based on what I know of the wargaming side of the industry. The wargaming side works on much lower budgets than the other aspects of the industry. Anyways, I think BTS has done their math right and are gonna see a return. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumbo Posted November 27, 1999 Share Posted November 27, 1999 Fionn I bow to your superior knowledge. I worked for "mainstream" publishers who treated hardcore wargames as the kiss of death. I hope BTS does VERY well out of these game, they deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 27, 1999 Share Posted November 27, 1999 Dumbo, No worries mate . Seriously, I think the wargaming side of thing suffers from even lower royalties than normal which is pretty bad for the wargame developers as royalties aren't all that high normally. I want to make it clear that I don't have exact figures etc from anyone but I certainly have gotten that impression from people both in wargame publishing and wargame development. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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