Guest Tom punkrawk Posted November 18, 1999 Share Posted November 18, 1999 I downloaded the CC4 demo last night,I would have thought the map would have been a little bit bigger for a 50.5mb d/l.I think that it just sucked in general,same basic game play as 3 where tanks rule the game.I think I'll take the money I would have spent on CC4 and buy ANOTHER copy of CM when it comes out. Another crappy ww2 wargames site ------------------ We ain't got no place to go,let's go to a punk rawk show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted November 18, 1999 Share Posted November 18, 1999 Mr. Punk Rawk, I second that, but I might suggest picking up some Tiger Tank prints from BTS instead. I was able the DEMO once. IT is actually uninstalled and deleted from my system. Sincerely, Richard Kalajian "May be going to a Punk Rawk show soon" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Talley Posted November 18, 1999 Share Posted November 18, 1999 I downloaded the demo as well last night and I have to agree. I had hoped that they would go back to the CC2 infantry survivability model but they didn't. I had ten(?) man squads defending in woods annihilated in two/three seconds by tanks from 100 (?) yds away. The survivability in building wasn't much different. I will look at it one more time but I am not hopeful. I really enjoyed CC2. It is too bad they didn't go back to that model. Thank goodness for CM. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted November 18, 1999 Share Posted November 18, 1999 hear hear I concurr completely- once again Atomic had proven to its customers that it doesnt care what they think,in regards to any aspect of their game- had they gone back to the cc2 style of graphics and gameplay, then fixed some of the ai errors -(like they were hounded about in the zone during a meeting with us 'peons' -that pay their check -which they seem to have forgotten). Maybe the guys a BTS can give the clowns at ATOMIC some lessons on customer appreciation, interaction, and general problem solving -- not to mention several history lessons BTS has shown them up in any aspect I can think of involving the wargaming genre THANKS BTS for doing what ATOMIC hasnt got an inkling nor desire to do. SS_Panerleader .....out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 18, 1999 Share Posted November 18, 1999 My favourite was the usage of the Arado 234 in the CAS role and the ability of the Calliope to fire on-map and destroy multiple enemy tanks. *sigh* ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom punkrawk Posted November 18, 1999 Share Posted November 18, 1999 Oh another thing that made me mad,I'm not that educated I guess you could say, on identifying tanks by their looks,and the names, Medium or Heavy tanks,it makes me think of Command and Conquer. Yes,it's pretty hard to win as the americans on that scenario.Andy why's there a mine roller thingy bobber tank when there's no mines? Anyway,thanks for making a great game BTS,finally when someone asks us what we want in a game we can say play CM and you'll know.And kinda on the same topic,BTS, you ask us what we want in the game and discuss it's possibilitys and all the technical stuff,so you actually try to get it in the game,and if you can't you explain fully why. Thanks And Richard,enjoy the punk rawk show,it'll change your life!!! ------------------ We ain't got no place to go,let's go to a punk rawk show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted November 18, 1999 Share Posted November 18, 1999 Punkrawk, Come on man. You know why the mine roller thingy bobber tank is in the game. 1) The roller can provide a truly sensational spinning squashing action that crushes and pulverizes unsuspecting German Infantry. 2) It is impervious to German Artillery and Air Attacks, then again everything seemed to be in CC IV. 3) The Mine Roller offered the best combination of armor and fire power to combat the infamous German Heavy Tank. The mine roller could easily outgun all German Armor ya know. Then again I might be wrong. Richard Kalajian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 HAHAHA sounds like you are quoting actaul scripture from the atomic game designers bible in the chapter entitled " WWII the way it really was spoken by the veterans of Atomic" I hear that its replacing local history books lol SSPL out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraut Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 CC4 is terrible ... it's not even fun from a "gamey" aspect. MK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 Ahem (zipping up Sparco racing suit in anticipation of a huge flame) The demo isn't much, agreed. But, wait till the verdict is out on the full version of cc4. It will eventually get a patch (according to a post by Atomic's Eric Young) and the strategic level could put a great new twist on the game. Thank You (Ducks behind asbestos sheild) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonFox Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 Whether it's a duck or rooster behind that shield it'll be roasted soon enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 I did an interview with Eric Youn only last week in which I asked about the strategic layer. Not only does CC4s strategic layer NOT allow concentration of force he even tried to convince me that ALL the military history books which talk about concentration of force are wrong with a trite "don't believe everything you read". When two BGs attack one enemy BG the friendly BGs attack one at a time. 15 friendly units vs 15 enemy units. If you lose the battle then the 15 units which have been sitting off-map patiently waiting for the battle to end march onto the map. Which BG enters battle first is random and NOT based on the amount of mechanisation (ie. how fast the battlegroup moves). Unfortunately many strategic games have been let down by flawed tactical combat resolution. CC's strategic layer is flawed I'm sorry to say and I think the infantry lethality and weapons performance issues in the tactical layer speak for themselves. The saddest thing is that the released demo is taken from the GOLD CODE which was mastered and duplicated to create all the CDs people are going to buy in the shop. In other words what you see IS what you get so far as the tactical game goes. Also, as for patches it should be borne in mind that Atomic pointblank has refused to release patches for "gameplay" issues in CC3 and CC2 and I've heard it stated they will not release "gameplay" patches for CC4 either. They WILL patch crashbugs but little or nothing else. This is the pattern they've set and only a few months ago I had it confirmed that this would continue by the owner of Atomic (the guys who make CC). I wouldn't hold out much or any hope for pathfinding fixes, infantry survivability fixes or data corrections. Don't forget that while the graphics files etc are only in binary the DATA files HAVE been encrypted to prevent people gaining access to them. From the people I've talked to breaking into the data files is gonna take quite some time and a lot of hard work + some luck as regards leads etc This is NOT a flame against anyone who likes CC or CC4 in particular. I just figured you might like to know some of the things I've had people IN ATOMIC tell me in the recent past since it has a direct bearing on what you are all expecting from CC and patches. Think of this as me throwing out some info for you to take on board or discard as you see fit. I'm not trying to persuade anyone since like I said before if we all bought every good wargame which comes out we'd still only be half a dozen a year BUT I don't want people making purchasing decisions based on poor advice and false expectations. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 I have been a person who always plays a full game for at least a full day before I make any judgements about it, but the CCIV demo will probably change all that. I don't think the worlds best campaign can save this one, as the tactical mode is ridiculous. 2 hours ago I started the demo, told a Mk IV to cross a bridge, watched it drive into a ravine and start spinning around (and around, and around...). After 5 mins, I left. I just came back and I have 1 KIA rifle squad, 1 immobilized King Tiger, and the Mk IV is still spinning. Thank God for uninstall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 Not out trying to disseminate "poor advice and false expectations," Fionn. Just think people could wait until they hear more about the game (than just about the demo). Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 Not taking sides here or trying to flame Dan, since I haven't played the demo, but... I have to ask the question: Have you ever played a demo, based on Gold Code, which sucked (so seems to be the majority opinion on USENET) yet have the full version be anything less than terrible? I've seen good demos and terrible games, but never a terrible demo and a good game. Never Again, not trying to flame Dan or CC here, but in my mind if a demo, the thing that is supposed to impress customers, is terrible then there is little to no hope of the game being any better. Just one of those near perfect truths in life I remember people trying to defend Panzer Elite's poorly received Beta Demo by saying "they'll fix the stuff for Gold, you wait and see", but yet the full version generally crashed more than it ran and when it did run had tanks going up 70 degree slopes... Since a demo can only be as good as the full version, a bad demo has to be looked at with very, very, very deep suspicion that the full version will be similar. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 Aye, I think some people are deluding themselves that a Gold Demo isn't really a Gold Demo . Unfortunately for them Gold means Gold in the industry, Hell, with many games Gold really should mean late beta . ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom punkrawk Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 As Steve kinda said, the demo is what you base the game on,it's what's supposed to draw you in,I mean I loved CC1 and CC2,kinda liked 3,but this demo for 4,it's discouraging,I mean first they could have at least had a larger map.It looks to be CC3,but just gamey tank names and smaller maps,if this map is this small I expect them all to be,and that's something that makes me not want to spend the money on this.Like I said,more money to support BTS,besides,the funny thing is that CM's beta demo is better than I could imagine and who knows(other than BTS)how great the 'gold demo'(heh,new terminology for me)will be! ------------------ We ain't got no place to go,let's go to a punk rawk show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 Fionn: That's the best excuse I've heard yet about the lack of concentration of force! I can see it now--"Sorry, men, but we can't all attack at once. We outnumber the enemy 2:1, and that's just not fair." That's just priceless. I can't believe they tried to justify that to you with a straight face! Dar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 It's in the interview Dar. Plain as day . ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick CAN Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 I AGREE THE CC DEMO WAS AN ABSOLUTE SHOCK! SHAME ON YOU ATOMIC, I EXPECTED MUCH MORE. HOPEFULLY CM WILL BE OUT SOON TO COUNTER THIS FLOP OF A PROGRAM. NOT TO BE IMPATIENT OR ANYTHING, BUT JUST FILLING OUT MY CHRISTMAS LIST.....WILL CM BE OUT BEFORE THE NEW YEAR? IF NOT, NO PROBS, WILLING TO WAIT FOR AN EXCELLENT PRODUCT. FROM THE DEMO OF CM IT APPEARS TO ME THAT VERY LITTLE NEEDS INPROVEMENT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucero1148 Posted November 20, 1999 Share Posted November 20, 1999 As a newbie from way out in Asia its been interesting to read all these comments on ccIV. Out here the counterfitters already have CCIV for sale. From what I've seen of the game it appears to play well and none of the tanks spin around like dervishes when given a command. When the real game comes out I will buy just for the sake of supporting the manufactuers efforts. Hopefully Atomic will get American English on their soundtrack and not accented Russian English. I've also not had any problems giving commands to multiple units to fire on single or multiple targets. Possibly the pirated cds are better than the demos. Yes I know piracy is bad, but often times you can't get the games being sold in the states out here and the only alternative is HBO. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 20, 1999 Share Posted November 20, 1999 Er.. what is Russian anything doing in a Western Front game? You sure you didn't buy a pirated CCIII? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucero1148 Posted November 20, 1999 Share Posted November 20, 1999 Well when you go into the options of CCIV and click english for the german AI the voices are the same as used in CCIII. Atomic canabalized the russian english soundtracks and used that for CCIV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 20, 1999 Share Posted November 20, 1999 *Sigh* Talk about blatant and poor recycling eh? ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRourke Posted November 23, 1999 Share Posted November 23, 1999 Just to add in my gripe.. I too d/l ed the cc4 demo (thank god for DSL) and woooh, what a stinker. I used to wonder why the americans were so lax in getting upgunned shermans or better yet, fireflys, but now I see that we had the secret rocket tank on our side. Come to think of it, the big tank in Command and Conquer (the other CC) shoots rockets too, but without the pinpoint accuracy. The only thing I don't understand is why either army in ww2 bothered with infantry.. as far as I can see, their only use was to reload rockets... that and die horribly 10 seconds after being spotted by the enemy tanks. Ah, but I forget.. infantry was the only force capable of maneuvering easily through dense terrain, such as urban areas, forests, fields, roacds, bridges, etc. I think we all remember the seen in Patton were George C Scott personally tries to sort out a traffic jam, but all the tanks just keep spinning in circles. Maybe he wasn't setting enough waypoints. Chris ------------------ "Darling take me by the hand, gonna see a punk rawk band"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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