Berlichtingen Posted December 5, 1999 Share Posted December 5, 1999 Played Last Defence tonight for about the 100th time. I got the Americans to surrender before the Hellcats even arrived. 15 total casualties for the Germans... I think its time for me to get a life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted December 5, 1999 Share Posted December 5, 1999 How did you get them to surrender before the hellcats got there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted December 5, 1999 Author Share Posted December 5, 1999 I'm not sure... I didn't even know that was possible. I was trying something different... an all out blitz on the town. My tanks held back to pound any MGs that showed them selves and the armored infantry fast moved into town. I had just finished plotting turn 10, hit go, and the end game screen came up... I thought the app had crashed at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted December 5, 1999 Author Share Posted December 5, 1999 Ok, I tried it again using the same tactics. The Americans surrendered on turn 10. It would never work against a human opponent... well maybe a dumb one. setup: 1) shift all the dismounted infantry to the right of the road. 2) shift the Tiger forward on the road. 3) shift the right StuG to the left of the left StuG 4) position the 105 FO so he has LOS to the hill behind the town. 5) dismount everything from the tanks. Position MGs by the StuGs Turn one: StuGs and Tiger fire smoke on the hill behind the town... Tiger fast move down the road to the "bend in the woods." then hunt toward the lone building to the left. Call in 105 smoke on the hill behind town. Turn 2: Target the out lone building with the tiger. Concentrate both StuGs on the 50 cal that has stupidly given away its position. Turn 3: Concentrate the StuG fire on the other MG. Target the 50 with the Tiger... if its still around. Fast move the HTs to overrun the infantry positions around the lone building on the left. Fast move the dismounted infantry to the edge of the woods across from the wheat field. Turn 4: Fast move the tiger to overrun the infantry at the edge of the wheat field. Turn 5 on: Fast move to overrun anything that shows its head. Fast move the stugs down to reduce any targets of opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Foobar Posted December 5, 1999 Share Posted December 5, 1999 This sounds very interesting, but I don't know what you mean by overrun. Is overrun causing the opponent squads to surrender? Every time I have moved my tanks or halftracks close to the town, either I lose a tank to a bazooka, or I lose a couple halftracks to US grenades.(3-point shot) Please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted December 6, 1999 Author Share Posted December 6, 1999 Toward the end, I refer to overrunning with infantry. I've never lost a HT to straight infantry... bazookas yes, but never infantry. It may be that the only movement mode I use with HT is fast, and I keep them moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott C Posted December 6, 1999 Share Posted December 6, 1999 Berl, I really wish you hadn't said that would only work against a "dumb" human opponent. As a matter of fact, that's almost exactly what Fionn did to me... and my guys surrendered as soon as the Hellcats arrived (the Hellcats surrendered as well, but I believe that was going to be fixed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 6, 1999 Share Posted December 6, 1999 Scott, My game against Fionn, only lasted about 3 or 4 turns beyond that point (as you'll be able to read in the AAR later). He's real good at that agressive style of play. I wonder how he does in a more cautious mode? I did only have one squad surrender, and they tried to escape and were shot. Did you find that you learned a lot from playing him? I think I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott C Posted December 6, 1999 Share Posted December 6, 1999 Rick, Oh yes, I learned a lot from it. As anyone who plays me in the future will learn. Once the AAR goes up, I put a section at the end about "lessons learned," which I think will help some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Scott, Sounds like you had the same kind of experience that I did. I even devoted most of my conclusion to lessons learned. As far as learning from the experience, I think if I ever play Fionn again I'll still lose (at least the next time) but I'll make him sweat the next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Well, I learn too from these games. At the moment I'm putting some of those lessons to the test in some CE PBEMs which are going to make quite interesting reading ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted December 7, 1999 Author Share Posted December 7, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Berl, I really wish you hadn't said that would only work against a "dumb" human opponent.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It really wasn't my intention to offend. The comment was really in referance to some of the really dumb decisions the AI can make that a human player probably wouldn't. The AI does not seem to consider how a units actions may effect other actions. My favorite example is opening fire on the StuGs with the 50 cal. Now causing the StuGs to button up may be a good idea in and of itself, but it does give the MGs position away... and being the only target the StuGs paste it. Now the Americans have lost their best "anti halftrack" weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted December 7, 1999 Author Share Posted December 7, 1999 A note on Fionn's aggressive style of play (I've never played against him). Aggressive , not recless, tactics are the best way to keep your casualties down on the attack. It throws the defender off guard and denies him the ability to react to your attack. Aggressiveness has always been the hallmark of the great leaders of history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 I agree, sometimes you just have to take risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 I played last defence with Fionn as well only I chose Germans. Ended up surrendering to him around turn 12 or so as all my units were too battered from assaulting to withstand his fresh troops, he also had one hellcat survive and was gonna pick me to death with it. Although I did surrender I felt good about the game overall, some of my stuff worked and some didn't. Next time though, I'll get his lunch money and leave him a broken man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Ok, I see this has become the "bash Fionn" thread See guys, so long as none of you have Jabos I'm invincible ... As for my tactics: Well, it all comes down to getting inside my opponent's decision cycle, robbing him of the initiative and allowing him to do ONLY that which I want when defending. Then, as any good German commander would do, I launch a counter-attack and retake any lost ground and try to push the Amis back behind their jumping off points. On the offence it's all about being where the enemy never thought you would and about moving faster and hitting harder than he though you could. E.g. I'm willing to accept 10 casualties running across a wheatfield if that means I'll get into a village before the enemy thinks I can since then I'll SAVE 20 or 30 losses which I'd have incurred if the enemy had had time to shift into proper defensive positions. E.g. in CE I've taken all 4 VLs with only minimal infantry casualties as the US ( about 10 infantry dead + 2 MG teams) and wiped out roughly 5 German platoons merely by allowing the Germans to advance where I wanted them to and killing them where I didn't want them to. Berlichtingen is right. Success comes if you can judge exactly when to be aggressive and are cautious enough to never over-extend. A defender should be more cautious than aggressive while an attacker should be more aggressive than cautious but NEVER should a defender be totally passive or an attacker totally aggressive. What would you guys think of a tips and tactics page on the CombatHQ? The AARs on CombatHQ are good IMO but a tips and tactics page might be really welcome. Comments? ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobVarak Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 I think a tactics section would be wonderful! Part of the joy in playing CM has been an improved understanding of "real life" tactical problems and solutions. A form for their discussion would only add to the experience. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted December 7, 1999 Author Share Posted December 7, 1999 A tactics section would be great. One of the things that I find to be truly outstanding about CM is that I can employ the actual tactics used by my historical counterparts and achieve historical results. I'm used to games that reward tactics that whould be stupid on a real battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 I concur, a tips & tactics page would be a nice addition. Fionn, Not sure about the others here, but I take the idea that you learned something from playing us as complimentary. Here's to Fionn and any of his previous opponents leading any ladders etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Well I only PBEM'ed CM ONCE before the beta demo was released. Thus I was coming at it almost as fresh as all of you and thus still learning. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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