Close Assualt

[gene]

This may have been covered before, but I have a question regarding "Close Assualts".

Playing the Germans in LAST DEFENSE, I moved 2 squads into the same building with an American unit ( Only 1 icon on the screen, so I assume it took some casulaties).Anyway, after trading several shots both units just stood there & looked at each other for at least 30 secs. The next turn I manually targeted the American unit & my guys wiped them out. I thought Close Assualts would be decided fairly quickly, especially when one side is vastly outnumbered. Am I missing something, or does this need to be tweaked a little?

Ps This is without doubt, the best WWII game ever!!

[BFCElvis]

I'm gonna take a guess here. When this has happened to me I have assumed that both units were slightly shaken, pinned or otherwise frazzled and needed a small amount of time to regroup. Now that you mention it I am sure you can check this by having your unit highlighted and seeing what thier current status is while it is happening. Maybe if there was a "beserk" status both sides would continue to unload on each other until only one side was left.

[Mark L]

I was playing the Yanks in last defense and had a German FO run right into the same building as one of my squads, practically right on top of them. My squad ignored them, until I ordered them to shoot. The squad had come under some heavy fire previously and was hiding at the time, so maybe that had something to do with it. It looked kinda funny tho - reminded me of stories from Stalingrad where whole platoons of Germans nad Russians would be in adjacent rooms and too scared to venture into the others lair.

I had another interesting CC situation later in the same game in some nearby woods. A veteran SS squad was hanging out in some scattered trees giving the aforementioned guys in the building some grief. The rest of my platoon was deeper in the woods out of LOS, so I decided to have them sneak forward to hit the SS squad from two directions. The crafty Germans chose the same turn to move into the woods toward me!

The tension mounted as I watched a green squad moving forward through the brush toward the Germans' left flank. They practically walked right passed the Germans, who then turned around and bushwacked the green squad! I cringed as the SS squad lobbed two grenades at my frightened boys. Fortunately, my squad of regulars then got into the fray from behind the Germans and convinced them to leave. But the incident cost me more soldiers than I had intended.

The veteran German squad had lost a few of it's members previously when crossing the open field. I hate to think what might have happened if that had been a full-strength veteran squad!

But this was clearly a case of the inexperienced green troops just not seeing the veteran Germans. It was interesting to go back to the autosave file and replay the whole episode. The second time around, the green squad is more alert and detects the German squad in time. The resulting two-squad ambush wiped out the Germans to no US loss.

It was pretty cool to see the whole ambush/counter-ambush scenario modelled and played out. Even cooler to sit IN the trees and watch it all!

Mark

[gene]

Elvis / Mark,

Thanks for your comments & suggestions. Next time I Close Assualt I'll note the morale status of the units involved.

[Mark L]

Gene,

I wasn't really saying that you DIDN'T see something wierd, but from what I've been reading here, there are apparently a whole BUNCH of subtle details modelled in CM that aren't obviously visible. And sometimes the necessarily simplistic animations of the soldiers might give the wrong visual impression (i.e they might be kneeling alertly upright, looking right at the enemy squad, yet still be "cautious" or otherwise unwilling/unable to engage). But I love the grenade tossing animation in CC, tho.

I thought it was a little wierd that my troops in the building wouldn't quickly dispatch the FO, but I just rationalized it as battlefield confusion and moved on!

Mark

[Ken Talley]

I have noticed the same situation a few times also. When I have checked usually ammo is low. You may want to check ammo levels. I will also watch closer in the future to see if that explains the non-firing vs adjacent enemy units in the same building.

Ken

[Guest Big Time Software]

Dang Ken, that is EXACTLY what I was going to say It is a VERY bad idea to charge into a building with LOW ammo unless you are going in with another squad that has at least 5 or more. On the other side, if you are LOW and see someone coming for you, generally it is best to get outta there

Steve

[Mark L]

Ah, good point. By "Low Ammo" do you mean Ammo=2, or 1, for instance, or do you mean Ammo="LOW"? I ask because I noticed that my machine gunners seem to shoot a little less as their ammo count gets lower.

Mark

[Guest Big Time Software]

All units decrease the number of times they shoot as their ammo gets below a certain level (20%??). I personally wouuldn't charge unless I had at least a 5 for at least one of the units. That will all be expended in one assault most likely, so don't get too carried away after your first go!

Steve

[R Man]

I just want to add one more note to this thread. While playing last night, I saw an American team charge a building containing my regular SMG squad, who just sat there staring in the opposite direction while taking fire. All status indicators were good, so in the next orders phase I had the SMG squad rotate, then target the Americans. Poof, the SMG squad wasted them with no casualties.

It seems positioning and direction are VERY important in close-range combat.

[Mark L]

Yeow! I see what you mean by wanting plenty of ammo for a close assault!

Playing the Germans in Last Defense, I watched my veteran PG squad assault a yankee rifle squad in the building next to the wheatfield. The yankee squad had been under the almost constant attention of a StuG, and I figured it was well suppressed.

My PG squad started with 9 men and about 14 ammo. With plenty of covering fire, they charged 60m from the wall, and fired 3-4 times at various targets on the way. They also took one more casualty enroute, which seemed to take away a few more ammo points. When they entered the building, they were down to 7 ammo. In the remaining 20 seconds of the turn, they used up ALL the rest of their ammo, and maybe caused one more US casualty. (I seem to recall hearing a very long extended SMG burst <g>). The US rifle squad was revealed to be down to 6 men.

Fortunately, all the firing apparently thoroughly pinned the US squad, as my LOW ammo PGs dispatched them with ease the next turn (using bayonets and entrenching tools, I guess).

14 ammo expended in one assault. Yikes!

Mark

[Guest Big Time Software]

I have never been in a real firefight, and nor do I ever want to be. But I used to play a lot of paintball. I know that when I got up close, I would burn through LOADS of ammo to take out one person sometimes. I have enough experience and self control that it wasn't due to being "green", but rather a sort of gambling sense. I take two shots and my mind mentally notes that I have just gambled and lost. The decision then is (in a micro second), do I keep investing or try something different. Sometimes I gamble too much and find only a couple of rounds left in my 150rnd hopper This has lead to a very quick retreat under fire sometimes!

Steve