Simon Fox Posted August 27, 1999 Share Posted August 27, 1999 Personally IMO (for what its worth) I think you are managing your relief force pretty well (with a bit of luck I might add) although you are certainly not the slashing Panzer commander of '41. In the town though I think you were a being a bit 'cute' with all those redeployments especially as you know the US would probably have lots of arty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted August 27, 1999 Share Posted August 27, 1999 Your arty explination makes sense, I guess what I didn't realize was that you had only a turn or two of arty at most. With the amount of High Explosives martin's been lobbing in, I figured you had several turns worth at least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixman Posted August 27, 1999 Share Posted August 27, 1999 Fionn, Fionn, Fionn!! Executing Arty teams? Shame on you! Seriously, it is tough to take so much punishment from a hidden enemy. Now we know that Stalin was correct. Just thank God you are not facing the Russians, the whole town would be kindling by now! I just want to say that I am in full support of your decision to concentrate all arty on the town. Based on Martin's success, it will have to be quite devastating. If you think about it, he has used it only in places where he could reasonably expect you to be in high concentration, i.e. the town and the wooded roads. The only place you can be sure he will be in high concentration is the town. Smart move. Good luck with your advance mein Herr. ------------------ The enchanter may confuse the outcome, but the effort remains sublime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Talley Posted August 27, 1999 Share Posted August 27, 1999 Hi Fionn, I am having a difficult time determining the effectiveness of artillery vs your infantry in the town. You are obviously taking casualties and perhaps severe casualties. Are most of your artillery casualties vs infantry outside of buildings? How safe are your infantry in buildings vs artillery? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted August 27, 1999 Share Posted August 27, 1999 Fionn: in Turn 5, the driver of the Stug was killed. However, you then wrote that the vehicle later became mobile again. I assume that the Stug's hull gunner shifted seats. Am I right? If this is possible, then that's another winnah for CM. All other games say "ooops, your driver's dead. Your vehicle is immobilised for all eternity." DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 27, 1999 Share Posted August 27, 1999 Well, all I know is that the StuG and Panther were unbuttoned. Thus both the driver and TC were in the open. Enemy MG fire came in and each vehicle suffered one casualty. I do not know which crewmember it was that got shot but so long as I've only suffered one casualty the crew seems to shift around and keep it fully mobile. E.g. they man the gunner, loader and driver positions. I haven't ever had a crew in a workable tank which has taken two casualties so I only can speak with certainty about the situation with 1 casualty. Once I had a tank get hit by a massive mortar barrage (my own .. *cough* *cough* ) as I was advancing right into the heart of an American infantry company's position with tanks, SPW 251/1s and a company of infantry in line abreast and two crew got killed and the main gun was knocked out of action though.. So maybe in that case the fact that 2 people were killed meant that the main gun could no longer be fired? I'm not 100% sure yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 27, 1999 Share Posted August 27, 1999 Well, all I know is that the StuG and Panther were unbuttoned. Thus both the driver and TC were in the open. Enemy MG fire came in and each vehicle suffered one casualty. I do not know which crewmember it was that got shot but so long as I've only suffered one casualty the crew seems to shift around and keep it fully mobile. E.g. they man the gunner, loader and driver positions. I haven't ever had a crew in a workable tank which has taken two casualties so I only can speak with certainty about the situation with 1 casualty. Once I had a tank get hit by a massive mortar barrage (my own .. *cough* *cough* ) as I was advancing right into the heart of an American infantry company's position with tanks, SPW 251/1s and a company of infantry in line abreast and two crew got killed and the main gun was knocked out of action though.. So maybe in that case the fact that 2 people were killed meant that the main gun could no longer be fired? I'm not 100% sure yet. ------------------ ________________________________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Email: fionnk@thegamers.net Web Site: http://www.thegamers.net Affiliate Member of theiEntertainment Network Web Site: http://www.ientertainmentnetwork.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted August 27, 1999 Share Posted August 27, 1999 Just curious, Fionn. At this point (turn 10) are you writing off the town? What are your plans for the new Pz IV's? Are you going to follow up the 'Dash o' Death' SPW or are you gonna just kinda let it hang out to dry and keep with the original plan of moving around south? Just wondering whats coming up in the next couple of turns (though I assume you've already played them...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 27, 1999 Share Posted August 27, 1999 Ken, Well, his artillery hasn't been all that effective I just messed up when planning redeployments. What happened was that I saw a weak platoon on the southern hill and decided I would be able to redeploy to new positions. However, as I did so suddenly an ENTIRE COMPANY p[opped up on that hill and began firing at everything that moved in the town. His artillery isn't helping either since it is suppressing any defenders his infantry aren't targetting and, very importantly as soon as my units panic his artillery massacres them since they're in the open. overall If I had just sat tight and waited like I had planned I would be doing better now but since I didn't know he had an entire 4 platoons on my southern flank I felt able to move. I was just unlucky in that he brought an entire company of infantry AND his artillery to bear right in the middle of my redeployment. But, as with all war luck is part of the game. ------------------ ________________________________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 27, 1999 Share Posted August 27, 1999 One thing I forgot to mention in my AARs since I was still in shock from Martin's artillery fire) and had intended to cancel an artillery barrage but forgot and then it went ahead without me realising it was that I have fired some arty.. Anyways, my 120mm mortar FO fired an artillery barrage at the Americans platoon in the scattered trees near the central house... I hadn't even realised this until my HT dashing down the road ID'ed that Sherman as immobilised. Since I knew my Panther and StuG never had LOS to him I was wondering what the hell happened. Anyways, I went back to the previous turns and looking at them again it looks like an artillery shell might have hit it *chuckle*.. Looks like my arty has hurt Martin too which is lucky since I was concerned about that Sherman since none of my tanks can get it without it getting a shot off first which will probably kill them. Since I really don't want to take that Sherman with infantry I've targetted my 120mm FO to fire more arty into that area and hopefully my next barrage will clear it. I'm sorry I didn't mention it before but I didn't even realise it had happened since my Panther and StuG were firing into the clearing at the same time and so i assumed the explosions I saw during the turn were from direct fire. (More FOW in CM ) I'm beginning to really look forward to my 210mm rocket barrage. If I'm lucky it might take out most of a company if Martin concentrates his forces in the town... I only have 1 turn of 210mm rocket fire.. This arty barrage will use up my 120mm mortars and I have 2 turns of 105mm tube-launched arty left... I think that will be enough to create some shock and enough suppression to allow my first wave of troops to reach the first row of houses in the village. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Smith Posted August 27, 1999 Share Posted August 27, 1999 Fionn- I have noticed that several of your screenshots have been from the American, not German, perspective (i.e. there is an American soldier icon at the bottom of the screenshot). I suspect that they have all been captured units, but I don't know for sure. It also looks like the soldier icon in each case is a black soldier. Is that accurate? Is the generic soldier's face used to identify a unit (in the case I specifically remember, it was a surrendering MG group, identified as CPL Something, from Turn 11) going to be a black soldier in this WWII game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 27, 1999 Share Posted August 27, 1999 Once the position of an American unit is known I can place a camera behind them and see the action from their point of view. I think that is what you are referring to. As for the captured soldiers.. Yep I took a few pictures of those BUT I'm pretty sure none of them were black. In fact I'm certain of it.. If they do look black its due to the jpg being poor quality. The screenshots don't do Combat Mission justice. it looks better on my screen than it can possibly look in a compressed jpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted August 27, 1999 Share Posted August 27, 1999 Fionn: Just curious what your estimate is of Martin's strength. Have you been able to count and classify the vehicles you're facing and establish an estimate of manpower? (this is for my own kicks and giggles--I've just posted to ask Martin in his thread, too) Thanks, Dar Steckelberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 27, 1999 Share Posted August 27, 1999 Ah well, although it looks like I suck at battlefield command, I do excel at estimating enemy sizes.. As of Turn 12: I estimate that Martin has 4 platoon to the south of the town. 2 platoons to the WEST of my forces (they jsut appeared behin me and ripped me apart :-(), 1 platoon to my north and 1 platoon to my east advancing on the town. He also has 1 platoon in the centre at the wall line. That makes 3 companies which - 1 battalion. Thus I'm expecting some 57mm guns but I don't see them so I guess he didn't get them.. I know of about 9 enemy MG positions and I would expect about 10. I also have identified 7 bazooka positions which seems about right for a heavy weapons company in a battalion-sized position + 1 bazooka per platoon. I think Martin has 3 batteries of 81mm mortars, a couple more of 60mm (which should be on-map) and at least 1 battery of 155mm artillery. He might have two batteries of 155 but I'm not sure about that. He has 5 tanks. All Shermans.. Since a Sherman platoon comprises 4 tanks I'm guessing he's going to get 3 more Shermans at some stage from the north road behind that wooded hill near the river. I've just launched two platoon sized attacks on him as you'll read in the AARs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted August 28, 1999 Share Posted August 28, 1999 When are you going to make the arty call, and when should it arrive? I really REALLY wanna see the rockets' explosions. If those U.S. guns firing on you make that size of hemisphere, then the 210s, ...BOOM. Didn't those 210 rockets have greater explosive power than an equivalent-sized standard arty shell? Just watch out for the notorious inaccuracy of those free-flight rockets. Regards, DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 28, 1999 Share Posted August 28, 1999 I'm saving my rockets for the attack on the town. They take 4 to 5 minutes to arrive. normal arty usually only takes about 2 but if I time it right I can suppress Martin really good just as my infantry rise to the advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted August 28, 1999 Share Posted August 28, 1999 Fionn, I just went over to the comp...historical NG, and saw you and Tom Davie carrying on a discussion about the game. Is this the same TomDavie who posts here? If so, are the two of you priming the pump on CM-mania? DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 29, 1999 Share Posted August 29, 1999 LOL Doug, It is, as far as I know. And nope, we're not priming any pumps, we're disagreeing about CM actually hehe... The nice thing about Thomas is that he's reasonable though so I can chat with him and have a reasonable conversation even though I end up saying, "well, I think your worries will prove unfounded but I can understand why you have them" as opposed to being pilloried by someone with an axe to grind... You don't know how nice it is to come to a nice sensible forum evrey day .. I've pretty much abandoned cdmag's forums since they just let anyone attack anyone else personally and, when it has happened to me, have done virtually nothing to stop it in time. Moral of the story: Pick your forums wisely and leave those which are full of kooks.. I'm still only learning that one but at least I'm learning.. I just saw the turn 15 movie.. You guys will LOVE it .. Turns 12 and 13 should be posted tomorrow... I've been real busy today and I didn't get to finish either of them.. We're still not doing too bad though. I reckon Martin and I have been posting at least 8 pages worth a day each for the last week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted August 29, 1999 Share Posted August 29, 1999 Herr Major Kelly, It must be wonderful to be out of that bloody forest finally. I pretty much have the same question as someone else had above. Namely, now that you've doubled your armored fire power w/ the addition of the 2 Panzer IV's arriving and you've escaped the isolation of the forest do you plan to move harder towards the town w/ a combined armoured / infantry advance and perhaps overrun the US MLR in the middle of the map and reach the town more quickly? Or do you plan to keep up your diliberate grinding pace with infantry and HT's in front w/ tanks a little further back for support and get there later, rather than sooner??? While I can see that you will most likely continue a mostly diliberate pace, I'm also wondering if you fear that more US reinforcements may show up (perhaps even tanks, AT guns, or more bazooka teams) in the town which might make it extremely difficult for you to retake it. At least not without taking major losses in doing so which I imagine will be factored fairly heavily into who wins and who loses. Keeping up a slower, somewhat more constant, pace might also make it easier to drop an accurate artillery barrage on your infantry and HT's which could get quite ugly as you already well know. Although you do seem to be spreading these units out pretty well as they advance to minimize the losses from such and attack. BTW I've been confused about the state of your Stug, is it totally and permanently immobile, or not???? Regards, Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted August 29, 1999 Share Posted August 29, 1999 I'll grab that last question... Current status of the two StuGs is one in play and one bottled up in the woods. That means Fionn's total vehicle force is something like this: 1xPuma 1xPanther (less 1 crew) 1xStuG (less 1 crew) 2xPzIV 12xSPW 251 (I estimated this last bit because he keeps losing them ) The missing crew member fucntion will do more before the game ships, but right now the most important thing is that Fionn can not use those tanks unbuttoned. This means the tank is a lot less likely to notice stuff, which is a serious penalty. Martin's known vehicle force is: 2xShermans of some type (most likely 75mm models as they haven't come out of cover!) Infantry looks to be just barely in Martin's favor. Steve [This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 08-29-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 29, 1999 Share Posted August 29, 1999 I plan to advance to the wall line (as I call it) and destroy what appears to be a reinforced US platoon + 4 MGs + 4 to 5 bazookas + 1 tank there. That's a strong force and I want to take it out. Then I plan to move a tank forward and take out the Sherman on my northern flank (behind the little wooded hill). Then I plan to advance on the river with my HTs in the lead and destroy his bazooka ambushes and MG teams with concentrated MG fire. I plan to place my FOs and MGers in the multi-storey building at the wall line and use them to suppress the village a little. I reckon that by the time I have cleared the MGs and bazookas in the scattered trees near the river I'll be ready to make my assault. It looks like I'll be assaulting with roughly just over 3 platoons. I know I started with 2 companies but the arty took out at least a half a platoon and taking the MGs in the south will cost me close to half a platoon too. In Combat Mission a unit which has taken heavy casualties can, due to the loss of its platoon leader or due to heavy losses in each squad just be too badly beaten up to continue the advance and so while I have perhaps 4 platoons worth of guys 1 of those platoons consists of the battered remnants of the other 3 platoons which have been shelled or have been advancing into enemy territory. US reinforcements.... As near as I can see the Americans have 7 or 8 platoon,s as of Turn 10, on map. That means he might get a platoon or two more... I'm already outnumbered at least 2 to one (in squads) and 3 to one in manpower.. being outnumbered by close to 3 to 1 in squads and 4 to 1 in manpower won't make all that much of a difference. My BIG hope at the moment is that once I clear the MGs from the east side of the river that I will be free to blast all the houses in the village with tank main gun fire . I have approximately 100 75mmm HE shells left in my tanks and I figure that with a little luck that ought to be enough to really obliterate most of the first and second rows of houses in the village. When those houses are obliterated the units in them are usually massacred by MG fire as they run and rendered combat ineffective. I'm hoping that this will force his forces into a smaller and smaller area of the village and then I will drop 210mm rockets and 105mm arty on that portion of the village just before I move my 3 platoons of infantry into the village. I have ZERO chance at routing the Americans out of all these houses given that they outnumber me by 2 or 3 to 1 BUT every house I destroy will greatly hurt at least 1 squad, possibly more.. My plan is to destroy all the defensive positions Martin might locate in and concentrate his forces more and more thus making them easy prey for artillery. If I destroy ten houses then I'll have broken an entire US company and concentrated them nearer the apartment blocks. Then, when they're concentrated I'll let my arty hammer them as I move my troops and SPWs forward. I expect another 3 US tanks to appear close to the location of his current northern tank. I will be sure to leave a few infantry with panzerfausts in good positions there though to take care of them . My infantry have lost pretty heavily but I've got lots of prisoners. I intend to keep many US prisoners in my re-organisation zones since i hope that will prevent the US player from shelling me if he has more artillery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted August 29, 1999 Share Posted August 29, 1999 Hopefully this gets in before Steve closes this thread and starts a new one. Fionn, I'm impressed with your progress so far. You've met most of the goals you set up for yourself in the "Axis Setup" part of the Battle Reports. If your arty hits correctly, the US infantry will take large losses. If you can get your now-potent armored forces fully involved, and hammer whatever armor Martin has left, you might actually be able to stop the Americans cold! DjB [This message has been edited by Doug Beman (edited 08-29-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted August 30, 1999 Share Posted August 30, 1999 Regarding turn 12: Have you called in any arty yet? How do you know that Sherman between the houses is immobilized? Thanks, Dar Steckelberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 30, 1999 Share Posted August 30, 1999 Arty: So far I've called in about 30 seconds worth of 120mm arty on an exposed US platoon in the town. It didn't do much damage.. I think Martin didn't even notice it :-(. 210mm rockets (1 minute of fire), 105mm rounds ( 2 minutes of fire) Not used at all. 81mm mortar.. One mortar with 25 rounds is still fully functional. I'm going to use it to damage some of Martin's exposed infantry units when the time comes. From what I can see as of Turn 12 Martin has about a battalion's worth of infantry. I've killed 1.5 platoons but that still leaves 7.5 platoons in the village. I can assume he's lost up to 1.5 platoons worth of men overall in the village but since his casualties are scattered over a large number of platoons I reckon his force in the village equals 7 platoons.. Remember that each platoon of Martin's is 1.5 times my size. Thus I have to assault a unit which has the equivalent of 10 German platoons with only 4 platoons of Germans.. I VERY much need to kill a few more platoons out in the open with MG and mortar fire and then kill another couple with arty before I can attack on anything resembling even odds. Even then assaulting a village whilst being slightly outnumbered by the defenders is a recipe for disaster. What I would do in real life is capture the bridge and a couple of the houses guarding it under the cover of smoke, artillery and MGs and then stop. I would then use this position to slowly clear all the houses near the river and then, one night, I would infiltrate a battalion's worth of infantry across the river and bridge and rush Martin from all three sides. however, for spectacle I intend to drive forwards until dead . Dar: My "Dash O' Death" HT showed it as immobilised which surprised the hell out of me since I couldn't figure out how that had happened. I reckon that it might have been a poorly aimed Panther HE shell though or else it was a 120mm barrage which I'd forgotten to cancel (thank God I didn't cancel it eh? ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts