Bulgarian entry (v1.04)

[lettowvorbeck]

I rather liked the old pattern of Bulgarian entry with its wide variability. With v.104, I've done 3 pbem games and all have seen a 1914 entry of Bulgaria. This strikes me as too consistently early. If this event's timeline is so advanced of history, shouldn't it be coupled with an earlier timed event for the Allies to pressure Greece into allowing Allied troops into Salonika?

[Kommandant]

Agree, with the bulgarian joining there should be an DE for forcing troops in salonika, that saved the serbian army in the great war, and could save it in game. But ther should be good limitations to allow a total conquer of serbia by the CP player in early date.

[lettowvorbeck]

It would be nice to have a road from S. Serbia into Albania, too, that didn't go through Greek territory as that was the route they used historically to retreat to the sea.

[Kommandant]

It would be nice to have a road from S. Serbia into Albania, too, that didn't go through Greek territory as that was the route they used historically to retreat to the sea.

Agree again, I always try to work a retreat via montnegrin territOry, or hold until death, but historical retreat was via albanian territory, so a road down there, deep down there would really help out in the retreat of serbian forces.

[Bill101]

Hi everyone

Is Bulgaria entering really quickly due to Central Powers successes against the Serbs, diplomacy, or does it appear to be script based?

I've never seen them enter this early myself, so either I've been unlucky or I haven't got the same strategic nouse as some of you have!

Bill

[Bill101]

It would be nice to have a road from S. Serbia into Albania, too, that didn't go through Greek territory as that was the route they used historically to retreat to the sea.

Hi

You wouldn't happen to have a map of this road that you could email me?

Thanks

Bill

[lettowvorbeck]

The one I was thinking of specifically was in a library book. Maybe we can find one online.

Hi

You wouldn't happen to have a map of this road that you could email me?

Thanks

Bill

[lettowvorbeck]

Since it happened in all 3 games at nearly the same moment (around Nov 1914) it seemed scripted. I think Belgrade was occupied in all 3 but not much more of the country than that. I wouldn't consider that such a smashing success as to induce Bulgaria in at such an early stage.

For v1.04, the version notes say that the pro-CP swing in Bulgarian stance with the fall of Belgrade was "adjusted" but nothing specific. Might that perhaps have been overdone?

Hi everyone

Is Bulgaria entering really quickly due to Central Powers successes against the Serbs, diplomacy, or does it appear to be script based?

I've never seen them enter this early myself, so either I've been unlucky or I haven't got the same strategic nouse as some of you have!

Bill

[lettowvorbeck]

Bill, take a look at this map:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Serbian_Campaign_1915.JPG

If nothing else, it would help if you made the road connecting Monastir with Albania not go through neutral Greece but pass above the lake as seen in this map.

The route on this map west from Skopje roughly corresponds to the path I mentioned in the earlier post as one of the primary ones used in the retreat.

[Kommandant]

Well, as i have seen, the major retreat from the serbian army, not civilians, was made via montenegrin territory, but a major civilian and some of the army retreated directly into albania. what could be done, that sounds more historical, is let the serbian army fight, even after the serbian surrender, even if the army is still inside serbian territory, that would allow them to retreat into the sea. I'm not very into the literature about serbian retreat in 1915/16, so I'm not totally sure if the bulk of the army used montenegrin or albanian rodas to retreat.

The bulgarians joining so early is caused by the new script, if you take and hold belgrade, not a very dificult task to be made, bulgaria will join early, you don't need to take other major actions agianst serbia. It happened to me in my 2 mirror match games that I'm playing.

Not sure about what should be done here, but this scritp is too powerfull. Another point is to allow the players to take control of salonika from, let's say, march 1915 foward, if bulgaria join, or in the historical date.

[Bill101]

Thanks for the reports and I'll get it checked out and fixed!

The map looks good too, thanks Lettowvorbeck.

[lettowvorbeck]

Thanks, Bill!

[Kommandant]

Just reviving this thread, I have just a point to add, I'm in a pbem game and I managed to crush AH advance and hold all serbian ground with all the units, some with demage but all intact. The AH unit stand down in a historical defensive line right in front of belgrade, and belgrade havent even falled once, but Bulgaria has just joined the war in fev/1915.... that is extremely strange, all my exp with early Bulgarian entry was the early fall of belgrade, and only that, but this is really strange... something here is wrong...

[Bill101]

Hi Kommandant

Have the Central Powers had diplomatic successes?

I've taken a look through all the scripts and the only other possible factors to move Bulgaria towards joining the Central Powers are that:

Any country surrendering to the Central Powers will lead to a small 3-5% swing.

The Entente declaring war on Albania would lead to a 10-20% swing.

The Entente declaring war on Greece would lead to a 20-40% swing.

Otherwise capturing Belgrade or Nish in Serbia are the only other triggers.

[Kommandant]

Hi Kommandant

Have the Central Powers had diplomatic successes?

I've taken a look through all the scripts and the only other possible factors to move Bulgaria towards joining the Central Powers are that:

Any country surrendering to the Central Powers will lead to a small 3-5% swing.

The Entente declaring war on Albania would lead to a 10-20% swing.

The Entente declaring war on Greece would lead to a 20-40% swing.

Otherwise capturing Belgrade or Nish in Serbia are the only other triggers.

I do not believe diplomacy changed anything, see, in my game as CP, against the same opponent, it took me lot's of turns to take belgrade, but it's mine, in december 1914, and since the start of the war, Bulgaria has been moving to join CP.... now, I just went to the mobilization_2 script file and took a look in the event "The Central Powers Capture Belgrade - Continuous (Bulgaria)" I think I found an error. In the condition_positon there are 2 lines, like this:

#CONDITION_POSITION= 280,67 [0,0] [0,0] [1] [0]

#CONDITION_POSITION= 280,67 [0,0] [1,1] [1] [0]

Now, as far as I understand this the fist one is, as long as there is no CP unit in belgrade there will be a mobilization of 2%-5% of Bulgaria to CP side, and the second one is, as long as there is a CP unit in belgrade Bulgaria will mobilize 2%-5% to CP side. So, as the CONDITION_POSITION use OR logic, one been true the event is triggered, so I think this is the prob.