TBlaster Posted August 20, 1999 Share Posted August 20, 1999 I've been sitting in lurk mode for weeks now checking for new messages 3 times a day . I must applaud BTS for their presence here on the boards...nowhere I have been before showed this kind of product information/support. What I want to do is use CM for the tactical part of an overall campaign. And I'm looking desperatly for another game that can act as the strategic part to infterface with CM. Something similar to Oper. Art of War, except that whenever for example 2 or more units meet it shouldn't calculate the result, but should simply list attacking and defending units for the approriate player. Then the battle would be fought in CM and the results would be re-entererd in the strategic game. I have done this to a certain extent with a friend of mine using SP 2 for the tactical part and we made our own rules and used maps/icons for the strategic part. I just wish there was a program that would take care of that...c'mon BTS...crank out a strategic interface for CM Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted August 20, 1999 Share Posted August 20, 1999 With all the grogs who are regulars on this board, Tom, I doubt cobbling together a strategic framework for CM's tactical portraits will be too hard. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 20, 1999 Share Posted August 20, 1999 LOL. Doug is right. TBlaster, I think you can give up trying to use a strategic level game to generate battles which are resolved in CM's engine. 1. Finding a perfect match where the maximum size of unit entering a battle in the strategic level game is a reinforced battalion (which I think is the level CM is comfortable ) is going to be tough. 2. Map design is going to be tough and a huge burden. Don't even think of going with random maps since how are you going to ensure proper matchup between terrain in the strategic game and the map CM gives you? I'm guessing that many people on the board have already considered the possibility of a meta-campaign. I know I sure have. Get a few talented map designers together, have them make a big 50 km by 50km meta-map in rough and then sign up players and have them all PBEM eachother over the next two weeks. take the results of those battles, figure out the new front lines, allocate re-inforcements to the top Allied and German commanders, let them decide which of their subordinates gets what and then fight the tactical fights for another couple of weeks. Continue until my side wins.. umm I mean, the best side wins hehe. I've always found that a human-run meta-campaign where you need some role-playing and get to meet quite a few different players is better than the system you imply. it'd require a fair few players and some dedicated umpiring but shouldn't be beyond our resources if enough people are interested. But, that's for the future when CM is actually released of course and is only my preliminary take on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted August 20, 1999 Share Posted August 20, 1999 Use the search key and look up under subjects "discussion of campaign features" for a thread we had a few months back regarding meta campaigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBlaster Posted August 20, 1999 Author Share Posted August 20, 1999 Thanks for the feedback...I like the idea of the meta-campaign...let's see if after the release people are interested in it. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhet Posted August 20, 1999 Share Posted August 20, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Continue until my side wins.. umm I mean, the best side wins<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> LOL Fionn, need an ally? ------------------ Rhet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 20, 1999 Share Posted August 20, 1999 LOL. LOTS. I'm a big believer in the old saying that God may not always be with the strongest battalion (most numerous force) but that's the way to bet . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted August 20, 1999 Share Posted August 20, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>God may not always be with the strongest battalion (most numerous force)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well I try to give everyone a chance. John Maragoudakis [This message has been edited by John Maragoudakis (edited 08-20-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted August 20, 1999 Share Posted August 20, 1999 Fionn, I would have to agree w/ most of what you have said. I don't think there is any way someone is going to tie an operational level game into the CM engine. Just too many difficulties in doing something like that. As far as the meta-campaign goes I think that is a great idea. I know it was discussed before, just can't remember the details of the discussion. One potential problem I can forsee (BTS can correct me if I'm wrong here) is that I don't think the game system and/or the average users computer system is going to be able to handle 50km by 50km maps. I seem to recall Charles or Steve stating an appx. max. map size, but can't remember what it was. My guess (and it is just that, a guess) is that realistically we are probably looking at 10km x 10km or maybe upto 15km max. Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 20, 1999 Share Posted August 20, 1999 I have it on reliable information that map sizes should be less than this but what I was thinking of was a bit like what we used to do with boardgames... You could expand the size of the game by using boards from other games for extra terrain. What I'm thinking is that one could design a 25km wide by 10km deep map by making 40 2.5km by 2.5km maps. Just make the terrain. treat each 2.5 km map like a sector and then advance from sector to sector. Of course if people are REALLY intense then you could design a 25km by 10km map in a paint programme and allow commanders free movment on it and make up maps of wherever they happen to meet on the fly. That would be an excellent way to do it but I'm thinking it'd be too much work. I reckon the sector by sector approach would be best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted August 20, 1999 Share Posted August 20, 1999 Fionn, Ahhhhhhh, now I see where you were heading w/ the large maps. Hey, if that kind of thing will work, that will be all the better. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted August 20, 1999 Share Posted August 20, 1999 Hi Tom, welcome to "delurking" I think pretty much everybody has said what needs to be said. However, I will just add that mixing different scales of warfare in games doesn't really work. The main reasons are time and elements. It takes too much time to move too many elements to get anything done. So if you want to simulate just two divisions bumping into each other over a period of a day (common div time scale), there might be about 100 seperate battles at CM's level. So the question is, which battles do you simulate? And how do you make the outcome relevant to the Op level? Picking one battle really doesn't mean much, but doing more than that means the Op level will most likely never go for about 3 or 4 turns (days). Er... hope this is clear. Haven't been sleeping much Sorta related... a long time ago I had a wargaming friend who was REALLY into 18th century minatures. What he wanted was a simulation that allowed you to move around individual men (with all the rules of movement, loading, aiming, etc.) but also allowed you to move around whole divisions. As cool as this sounds in theory, it can't work in reality. Even if you sat someone down in front of the super computer capable of running this game, I doubt it would be fun and the person would tire of it before really even starting Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted August 21, 1999 Share Posted August 21, 1999 Party pooper! Why do you always have to, like, tear down my dreams and stuff? DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRourke Posted August 21, 1999 Share Posted August 21, 1999 Then again if you compare CM to say, Kampfgruppe or Field's of Fire (15+ year old games), you can't help but wonder what we'll be playing in another 15 years. My guess is Command & Conquer 9, or Quake XII, because large companies will have grown so powerful that they can actually pass laws mandating that you play their games. Its my vision of a dark future. (Did I mention Outpost 6 and Deer Hunter 15?) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted August 21, 1999 Share Posted August 21, 1999 Hey Chris, I still have the boxed version of Kampfgruppe, though I didnt get Fields of Fire. I did get one around the same time called Panzer Stike, which was good, and even had simultaneous turn resolution, which was pretty amazing on 64k of RAM Kampfgruppe was a good game, I really enjoyed playing it against my uncle for many months, maybe even years if I recall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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