Vic4

Reposting this article. There are no words in the English language to adequately describe how horrific and despicable the contents are, but imho it should be read by everyone following this thread. Compounded by the fact that this is being perpetrated exponentially en masse as we speak is sickening. It will eradicate any remaining vestige of compassion you might have for the RA. At least it did for me.. Russia can go to h*ll. Glory to Ukraine

@Battlefront.com@The_Capt et al, Barring any imminent cease fire or diplomatic resolution do you anticipate the UA will pursue counter offensives to regain territory in the DR/LR? Also, do you think the UA will expand its’ scope to mount any offensives into Crimea? Given the “annexation” would Russia perceive this as an attack on Russian soil and therefore respond with full mobilization and/or other escalatory measures?

I'm not certain that is the case but ofc hope you are right. As has been noted here from many angles, unfortunately I don't think it's viable to rely on the "digestion" of the majority of Russian people to inhibit any atrocity. I don't think so because of exactly what Steve notes below. Putin seems absolutely willing to back up his "bluffs".

@keas66Yes exactly, and he will "acquire" Ukraine as per his ultimate intent.

Please forgive this train of thought but, I don’t understand why no one thinks that Putin isn’t simply going to start lobbing tac nukes into Ukraine. He has been utterly humiliated, his conventional assets have been decimated, and his economy and trade relations have been shattered for at least as long as he remains in power. He has yet to show anything resembling restraint, particularly in regards to any of the “red lines” that the west has drawn for him and he has made it clear that there is no negotiation or concession beyond achieving the “operational goals” of his “special military operation”. He doesn’t care about civilian lives & their suffering, or existing infrastructure; he only cares about domination of Ukraine and bringing them back into the Russian fold; evidently at any cost. For someone so clearly psychopathic and egomaniacal, why wouldn’t he escalate and use the remaining raw power he has available to him at this point? So long as he doesn’t directly attack NATO, I don’t believe anything he does in Ukraine (however vile) will get any response beyond what is already being done….

Copy. Truly hope that incompetence, corruption and insubordination extends to their nuclear division...

Haha copy that... But seriously, would totally appreciate if you took a swing at the question; can they keep this going without crazy time escalation?

@Battlefront.com@KinophileSorry, the T14 was a sarcastic citation. Really just asking if Russia's military industry is mobilized; producing whatever "battle ready" hardware and corresponding personnel as fast as bloody possible and if they are committed to a "conventional" approach rather than a chicken little meets dr. evil doomsday solution...

Given the extreme material losses that the Russians are sustaining, do we know if the Russian military industry is fully mobilized (i.e. cranking out T-14’s, BMP-3’s and training personnel etc. as fast as possible)? Do they have the material resources to keep producing sophisticated equipment or were they stockpiled previously in anticipation of the sanctions? How long can/will Russia sustain a conventional conflict with significant losses until only the “rabid animal in a cage with nukes” option is all that is left…?

@Hister, thank you. That's an incredible interview.

No disrespect intended. Honestly. Dropped

@melm Very respectfully disagree. There is a certain individual that has well documented affinity for Putin and a penchant for lucrative, unrequited real estate deals in Moscow and a general distaste for NATO that has been quite a topic in our country recently. //nuff said

Attempting to tread very lightly here: @LongLeftFlank: Another item for your list. A wildcard that I feel is being relatively ignored but is unfortunately entirely plausible is that a “Russo-Sympathetic” American administration could be in the picture in 2025. If Putin is able to drag this out in some fashion for that long (war crimes and sanctions be damned), Ukraine, NATO, and the general sense of unity we currently have could be compromised and altered significantly by a change in US policy.

@kraze& @Haiduk et al Could you please elaborate (in an unbiased manner) what drives the ethnic/racial animus between Russia and Ukraine? If I understand correctly, you refer to “ethnic cleansing” as being a prominent motivating factor for the typical Russian soldier, regardless of the overarching geopolitical dynamics between Russia and “the West”. In short, from your perspective, what is the origin of all this hatred and to what end does it serve? Lastly you speak of the disintegration of Russia as being necessary. What does that look like in terms of re-divided nation states; governments etc.? ...Disclaimer…I don’t want to derail the thread or inflame emotions so if a dry, calculated answer is not possible then please refrain. Thanks

I'm curious about this as well. Did they actually send out an army of novice welders with 2x2 tube steel without even testing one first?

Freely admit I'm no expert but he's definitely managed to galvanize much of the population to aspire for democratic ideals. Imho, certainly better than anyone in Putin's immediate sphere that could just as easily or forcefully take control (i.e. Medvedev etc.)

Thanks @sburke; I hope he makes it through. If Putin does fall it would be good for the people of Russia to have an inspiring voice and potential leader with some established integrity. Ah, thanks Steve, hadn't seen that!

It's unfortunate that Navalny chose to return to Russia. Is there any information that he is still alive? ..Would be a miracle if so...

In light of @BeondTheGrave's post for considering “wider” perspectives; the link below is to an opinion piece that skews to the Russian perspective (of which I’m not a subscriber). However, the essential premise is that U.S. policy and their influence of expanding NATO into the Russian sphere since the fall of the USSR is ultimately to blame for this conflict. I don’t have the depth of knowledge to confirm or deny their allegations but there are some points made about the development and evolution of NATO after the fall of the USSR and how it informs Putin’s worldview. Curious if anyone here has read it or considered its’ stance and what your thoughts are regarding. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/28/nato-expansion-war-russia-ukraine

@The_Capt But in this case we relying on insubordination of Putin's underlings to not carry out such an order, correct? Really not trying to chicken little here fwiw..

With the invasion being such an incomparably catastrophic f-up in every conceivable way for Putin and his regime; is there really any way to avoid nuclear brinkmanship at this point and how to proceed in that event? ...As Steve said very far up thread, there's nothing more dangerous than a cornered animal (much less rabid), and now they are even threatening "consequences" for any nation that provides lethal arms/means to Ukraine which most NATO countries have already committed to very publicly. This is a contemporary Cuban Missile crisis but perhaps exponentially worse because it truly is involving the whole world. ...long time (decade+) lurker, own all the games etc. Thanks BF for keeping this thread open. Appreciate any response or thoughts regarding the above question.

Exactly this... What is the response of NATO et al to nuclear ultimatums?

Doesn't the decision to make this public seems like a very big risk of a perceived escalation by NATO? Thanks CHEqTRO for the above reply. ... Just f-ing terrible...

What happens when Putin does engage/attack a NATO country (i.e. one of the Baltics)? Conventional warfare, nuclear, or a withdraw and let him have it because it was once part of the USSR and no one wants WW3?

From NY Times: 2.25 - 11:00 AM PT A satellite image taken on Friday shows helicopters lined up in Belarus, around 20 miles from Ukraine’s border.Credit...Maxar Technologies Satellite images collected on Friday show more than 90 helicopters lined up across five miles of road in a rural area of Belarus, 90 miles from the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv. The aircraft include both attack and transport helicopters, the same types seen Thursday in Russia’s assault on an airport outside Kyiv. The decision to position the aircraft along a road close to Ukraine instead of a base appears designed to facilitate rapid deployments. “It’s sort of the perfect range really,” said Tom Bullock, an analyst at Janes, about the location. “It gives these pilots much more ability to go into some of Russia’s main front lines, such as Kyiv.” Bullock says the aircraft include Ka-52 attack and Mi-8 transport helicopters. Image A long line of helicopters, seen parked on a street on Friday in Belarus.Credit...Maxar Technologies Over the last few days there have been numerous reports of heavy fighting on the outskirts of Kyiv. The satellite images from today also show increased military activity in this same area of Belarus, including Russian ground forces lined up.