LemuelG
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Posts posted by LemuelG
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Haha, I guess I missed that boat. Cue posts referring me to search function...
What happened in that thread? I guess team 3-squad lost?
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I wasn't originally worried about this (ignorance), but as I've researched for a scenario I've come across a few hints that maybe the in-game Para companies are a bit under-weight.
Reading things like this prompted me to post:
Commanders of both the divisions which had taken part in the Normandy recommended that the organization of the airborne division be modified to bring it into line with practice.By juggling figures and using replacements received before combat, commanders organized additional rifle squads, reconnaissance detachments, and military police platoons, and thus built what they considered a sound organization.
Out of the Blue: U.S. Army Airborne Operations in World War II, James A. Huston p.187
Lieutenant Meyers was briefed on the unofficial table of organization and equipment that had been adopted before Normandy, with the addition of a squad to each platoon in a parachute infantry company.Each of the three rifle platoons had three twelve-man rifle squads, a 60mm mortar section, a rocket launcher (bazooka) team, and a platoon headquarters with a platoon leader, assistant platoon leader, platoon sergeant, and a radio/telephone operator (RTO). Each rifle squad had a light machine gun (LMG) and a Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR). One squad member was the assistant LMG gunner and the rest of the squad’s riflemen had the additional duty of carrying added ammunition for the LMG.Four Stars of Valor: The Combat History of the 505th Parachute Infantry, Phil Nordyke p.223
In No Better Place to die, Robert Murphy states his company's (A, 1/505) post-drop strength at 146 men total, with a (approx.) 90% assembly-rate. Significantly higher than what we find in-game. Of course, three extra sections is an attractive explanation for this higher head-count. Tangled within eyewitness accounts in the same book are also a number of references to BARs in each section, er squad.
I guess what I'm asking for is the ability to purchase extra squads for each platoon as 'specialist teams'. And a BAR for every parachute squad, or at least the option. For now
I understand it is not by-the-book, but there is significant evidence that the reality diverged sharply from theory, some similar cases of which BFC have already made concession for (57mm guns for one).
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Thanks, I really like this. Great job.
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i also like to compare it with a game like "achtung panzer kharkov 1942", because it is a game with almost the same subject.
if then someone wanted to tell me, that this and that is not possible to realize in such game, then i wonder, why this just mentioned game can realize it.
there are advantages here and advantages there. this game is better with such points and that game is better at other points.
I do this too, but I am careful to remember that all those lovely little things (and there are a few, formations being the first feature I'd jack from it for CM) in AP which are absent in CMBN effectively come with a cost - i.e. the complete lack of human vs. human play (inexcusable), or realistic tactical situations/missions.
It just shows that as yet there is no such thing as the perfect tactical game, but we get closer all the time. I did really enjoy fanging around in T-34s crushing the cowering crews of burning panzers under my treads, or rolling right over the top of an ATG... man, that game really needed MP
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I'm guessing.. it's because Pz.IVs are more likely to operate in formation, maybe?
German commanders actually moaned about the Panther's performance in bocage country, the long barrel became a genuine liability. Jagdpanzer IVs also suffered from these issues - one unfortunate collision between your long long gun and, anything at all - it's now useless. Maneuvering these vehicles in confined spaces required a lot of care and co-ordination from the crew.
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I've got another one - what if Germany doesn't wage a remorseless war of genocide and slavery, and instead enters Soviet territory offering a viable and attractive alternative to Bolshevik terror?
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Agreed, it would be nice to be able cut small chunks off large maps for ease of editing and viewing, pasting them back in later.
It would be nice to have a comprehensive explanation of the algorithm behind map-expansion from someone familiar with the code. At least let us plan around limitations.
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I am one of these that hates to see the red cross when your' guys get hit - so I end up saving more or less every turn and replaying. It sucks to be honest, but I feel so bad about losing my units.
Well that doesn't sound like much fun, you should really take your licks, come back swinging - it will be much more gratifying than tearing your hair out and interrupting the battle for several minutes if one of your gunners treads on a mine or a platoon leader is killed by a bullet ricocheting off a tank.
No wonder you're not enjoying it, an actual combat commander in Normandy with that attitude would probably melt-down within a few minutes of action. Make yourself some rules - one save every five/ten turns or something. Cut back your re-loads until you don't do it at all unless there is a crash or some-such, it's like weening yourself off the dope.
Keep playing if you're bad, it'll pass - I remember how rough a time I had with Close Combat the first time I played it, that seems laughable now.
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But then with Pear Harbor and Hitler's amazingly clever decision to DoW US, every 'what-if' is killed.
Yes, everyone's favorite "Hitler's biggest mistake"... I wonder, should he have just ignored the vast amounts of material sent over the ocean?
I've got one - what if the Nazis didn't squander so much of Europe's resources on the mass-murder and enslavement of millions defenceless civilians? Might that have helped?
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I have no problem with my infantry firing on TCs foolish enough to expose themselves to small-arms fire, good show chaps. I see it as perfectly desirable and realistic... why the heck would they wait until it was within 100m? That would be madness. If there was a problem it was with an almost super-natural infantry-spotting ability of buttoned tanks, something apparently adjusted in the patch.
If you don't want your guys to fire upon a tank, or be fired upon by a tank you should get them out of harm's way, or hide.
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This is a far more complex issue than just moving another tank next to yours and slowly gaining "health".
No duh. And first-aid/battlefield evac. is a far more complex issue than having a guy squat over a gravely wounded guy and mime wrapping bandages for a minute or two; most people get over it and don't moan about it's implementation (buddy-aid, that is). Turns out some gross abstractions are sufficient to enhance enjoyment and tactical experience, for me and a few others at least - if that were not true this game would not exist.
And, for what it's worth I'd like to see a 'no time-limit' option.
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They did a hack fix for one flashing problem for one card then the problem poped up for another, so they went back and fixed that... etc. etc. I thought they had finally run that to ground.
Not for me. I have no idea what circumstances conspire to make the trees flash, but it pisses me off enough that I tend to visit the editor to annihilate any offenders (only some trees flash for me, and they can be 'fixed' with deletion).
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The vignette of the recovery under fire is an interesting tactical example. I, too, would enjoy a quick scenario based on that battle. But why did that example make it into an AAR? Was it unique? Was it so noteworthy that a recovery under sporadic small-arms fire was attempted that it needed to be recorded? Or, was this an average day for the recovery vehicle?
Ken
The scenario was taken from a pamphlet put together by the US army with the intent of passing along tactical lessons learned in Normandy to fresh troops about to be deployed there.
Take it as you like - it may be cherry-picked, but it was held up as an example to be followed.
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4. Mid size church tower (!!!) - this is more important than castles. There was a church with high tower nearly in every village. Current cathedral tower is too large for most churchs.
While I would argue about it's relative importance vs. castles, I agree with this whole-heartedly. A country-style church with a more significant stature and more substantial bell-tower would be very desirable for historical scenario design; it would be nice if we could also have 'diagonal' churches - y'all know what I mean.
While I'm here I might as well quickly plug my desire for an in-between height for hedges/walls as well.
New map-elements are a sure-fire way of making the game better, particularly castles. Castles.
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Aww, I got all excited - but then I realized I hadn't assigned any objectives, I double-checked to be sure, and there was nowt.
Am currently sitting at 2368m horizontally; westward expansion is not possible, it freely extends to the east out past 2500m (too lazy to go further).
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One thing you didn't consider in your time and story lemuel is the recovery vehicle's time to get onsite from the depot. I don't know of any world war II units that had the recovery vehicles advance with the main attack. So your 3-4 hours [which is NOT a typical scenario] doesn't include time to notify the deport, travel time to get to the site, survey it, and recover the tank. Trying to see if I had anything on repair times for a Sherman, will post if I find anything.
All armoured formations had organic repair units, down to company level.
b. Functions of Tank Repair and Workshop Units(1) The repair sections (the available information apparently applies to both types of repair section mentioned above) are responsible for the general maintenance of the tanks, and of their armament and radio apparatus.
In camp and rest areas, they keep a check upon the serviceability of vehicles in the unit to which they are attached; during this period, mechanics are given advanced training through attachment to the workshop company or under master-mechanics transferred to the unit.
On the march, repair sections travel with the tank units and deal with any breakdowns in vehicles or equipment, in so far as these repairs can be effected in less than 4 hours and with field equipment. If a tank breaks down, the repair section leader inspects it and determines the nature of the damage. If the damage warrants it, the tank is handed over to the recovery platoon to be towed away; otherwise, a motorcycle with mechanics stays with the tank to effect repairs, while the other elements of the repair section go on with the column. In this way, one vehicle after another of the repair section stays behind; ordinarily the motorcycles, but, if damage is serious, a half-tracked vehicle. The repair automobile always goes on with the column, while the repair truck always stays with the repair vehicle left farthest to the rear.
In the assembly area, the repair sections thoroughly test all tanks and equipment as to fitness for battle. Any breakdowns are reported at once to the unit motor-transport sergeant.
In battle, the company repair sections are under the order of the battalion commander and are directed by a battalion motor-transport officer. As a rule they follow closely behind the fighting units and range over the battle area looking for broken-down tanks. If the tank cannot be repaired on the spot it is made towable and its position reported to the recovery platoon (of the workshop company)
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt08/german-tank-maintenance-recovery.html
The ability to respond quickly to breakdowns/damage etc was a major factor in being able to keep these units moving. Particularly for the Germans who could not rely on rapid replacement of losses incurred.
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Incidentally the opposition sounds a bit lightweight doesn't it! - in the example.
Sure, though a dedicated 81mm mortar is a pretty convincing problem-solver. The solution to vehicle-recovery under fire is much the same as almost every tactical problem, fire-superiority.
However there are more important things by far to be sorted first.Agreed, just planting seeds for the next major release..
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I used 'em in the demo without problems. I drive them right up to the hedge first, then plot a slow movement to the other side directly, takes a few seconds. Hope that helps.
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I suspect the map can only be expanded a certain amount in each direction, I have one that is little more than 2km wide and can only be expanded to the east, having added much ground to the west already it wont go any further.
Please fix
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I'd take US para battalion over any other equivalent. More explosives, more mortars, HQs equipped to kick butt.
Some of the AB formations committed at Normandy were pretty green, others were crack - on both sides. I think it's fair to say leadership in allied AB was generally much more aggressive and determined than was the case in the rifle divisions. A lot of those guys died pretty fast though.
Paratroopers are also trained in the use of most weapons the division fielded, as they could not always be assured that they would be able to find their assigned-weapon in the drop-canisters, and would take whatever they found, swapping them later on when a mutually-beneficial arrangement can be made with another soldier. I wonder if this is represented in-game? (presumably the guy who buddy-aids a Zook won't be as good with it as the guy who's it was; AB should perhaps not suffer <as much as others> from that penalty)
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I remember those discussions, I was inclined to believe it since I had so often noticed MG crews barely using their ammo stocks. Since, I have seen s.MG42s really going to town at close range.
Certainly the 'test' which involved a US rifle company advancing toward a German platoon over open-ground was pretty ridiculous. Germans tended not to emplace their guns right out in the open facing superior forces - gee, imagine that weapons in highly unfavorable positions facing much greater forces don't perform so well.
It's also worth mentioning the significant gulf between a belt-fed s.MG42 and a drum-fed l.MG42 in terms of accurate and consistent firepower.
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This all presupposes that immobilized=thrown track.
No it doesn't. Leave the strawmen out of it eh? A thrown track is a thrown track. I don't remember anyone asking for the crew to give their vehicle a full-service in-situ; just put the friggin track back on, dig yourself out of the mud, do something!! Not rocket-science bro, severe damage is obviously not worth repairing in-game.
Battlefield Recovery Under Fire Letter, First U. S. Army Group, NORMANDY: "A tank battalion used the following procedure to recover one of their tanks which had been immobilized only 200 yards from the German lines:"An infantry platoon was placed in concealment in the hedgerow facing the German position and disposed so that its fire would cover the disabled tank. An 81-mm mortar was emplaced on the right flank of the infantry platoon. Then the tank recovery vehicle (T-2) started forward. Almost immediately a German machine gun opened fire but was silenced in short order by the mortar.
"When the recovery vehicle reached the disabled tank, the German infantry opened fire and moved forward, but the heavy fire from our infantry platoon, coupled with a concentration from the mortar, caused their precipitate retirement. The recovery vehicle hooked on to the tank and towed it to safety with no further difficulty and no casualties."
http://www.lonesentry.com/normandy_lessons/index.html
B-b-b-but... not under fire? Not under the circumstances we find in game? Of course I call BS on this, this stuff happened all the time. Will I bother building an air-tight case? No, it doesn't benefit me to do this, I wont get the time I spend doing it back, so stuff it.
Every single armoured formation in WWII had it's own organic recovery & repair outfits; while mostly rear-echelon, elements travel directly behind the vanguard ready to respond ASAP to any demands for their services, these repair sections were expected to triage the vehicle, if the job is simple enough to do in a few hours with parts and tools on-hand then they are expected to do it, and hurry-up about it. Arguments like: "but not in your typical CMBN scenario (whatever that means)" or "but not in a hot-zone" are provably false. Battlefield repairs/recovery are completely realistic. It is that simple.
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having read several accounts of tigers and king tigers stuck so deep it took 3-4 to pull one out.
3-4 hours, so... within the time-frame of a long CMBN battle?
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I already add high stone directly up against some walls to fortify them, since the truly thick ones didn't have too many windows anyway.
In the case of 'gray castle' I'm pretty dissatisfied with what I came up with... that thing's like a proper castle gatehouse; It's perhaps not quite critical tactically , but would be a brilliant aesthetic touch.
Here's La Fiere manor:
I really would like castles. I wont throw a tantrum if it doesn't get off the ground.
Three-squad Para platoons, myth? Or fact?
in Combat Mission Battle for Normandy
Posted
I guess the case I'm making is that these changes were already well underway by Normandy. The passage from Nordyke's book is quite un-ambiguous and detailed (as far as it matters to a platoon leader; why should he be confused about how many squads he had, and how they were organized?).
More, from Ridgeway:
AB leaders were aware of the short-comings of their organization prior to Normandy - some pre-Neptune changes are more obvious - adding 2 parachute regiments and subtracting a glider regiment from the OOB, for instance.
My sources are limited, but I think the subject deserves another look. If you have it wrong, then in-game AB companies are being severely short-changed.
I think there is ample evidence for a BAR to be added to every para squad, at the very least.