hcrof
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Posts posted by hcrof
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I have hit the 'out of memory' bug several times now when making two scenarios. Admittedly I knew from the start that they were going to push the editor hard - they are BIG.
It seems to be related to the number of houses or trees for me.
Is there a hardware solution (buy a better graphics card) or will I have to wait untill the next patch in order to play my maps?
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To honest, I think conscript level troops come close to untrained in terms of effectiveness. You get a massive burst of unaimed fire and the squad is wiped out when they all have to reload. Combine with the fact that they will be suppressed at the least bit of fire and in my mind you have pretty much untrained troops.
Green troops better reflects conscripts who have gone through at least some kind of training program. To make them reservists conscripted at very short notice the leadership and morale values should go down.
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Perhaps because it's relatively cheap and plentiful?
Yeah but the engagement suggests a 2% hit probability which just isn't worth it. How often do you get 50 RPG's firing at 1 target?
Combined with the face that an anti armour weapon with over 200mm penetration failed to cause injury in a very lightly armoured vehicle would suggest that those US troops were very lucky.
I am not promoting the RPG-7 as some sort of wonder weapon, I am just pointing out that many experts still regard it as effective on the modern(ish) battlefield. If I had all the money in the world I would get a Charles Gustav but the RPG is a good substitute.
You are right about the poor mans artillery bit - the round has a self destruct mechanism that activates at around 900m. If you are very good you can get an airburst effect at that range. I highly doubt its effectiveness though it has been recorded in Afghanistan back in the 80's.
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Ken - I completely agree. Thank you for summing up what I should have been saying in the first place
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I try to follow the guidelines that I gave above and even then it it frustrating to see my RPG operators miss. Green RPG guys literally cant even hit a building at 200m let alone a tank!
I have to say though that in my experience AT-4's are even worse - if there ever was a panzerfaust equivilent it would be an AT-4. It probably won't hit above 100m and even then it won't do any damage. The last time I used one it failed to take out a BMP-2, I had to use a grenade launcher in the end!
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The US Army did some tests a while back on the RPG and the results are published somewhere - I think you can find it as a link on Wikipedia. With a skilled operator, the RPG will hit a static target at 300m 50% of the time, to get that result with an unskilled operator the target needs to be at 150m. Likewise if the target is moving or if there is a crosswind, a skilled RPG operator has an effective range of 150m, the unskilled operator can forget about it. That information just came off the top of my head BTW - it might be wrong.
I suspect that those Humvees were at longer ranges than 150m and they were taking serious evasive action.
I think I might have had a debate before over that engagement - I can't remember who it was with though. AFAIK the conclusion was that on a hit the focussed jet of the warhead would just pass straight through the humvee without harming anyone. I would still argue though that a hit against an AFV would be more effective due to the more compact layout. You would be more likely to hit a critical system.
At the end of the day, if the RPG-7 was as ineffective as that engagement suggested, why would armies across the world still be using the things? Not just third world armies either - I think the Russian airborne use them!
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Same here - I am basing my comments on first hand accounts of battles in Iraq and Afghanistan. 'In Foreign Fields' edited by Dan Collins is a very good read and is made up of British medal winners telling their stories. It also documents massive amounts of fire that seems to magically miss them all the time.
I also suspect that a lot of the less die hard Iraqi insurgents that are just roped in for the money don't even really want to kill anyone. They just fire their weapons in the general direction of the western forces without even trying to hit. They then go home and tell fine stories of how many people they killed. (But that is of course pure speculation and I am willing to be proved wrong on that one)
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To issue a chain of orders you can select waypoints and issue orders to do when the unit arrives at that waypoint. Target lines begin at the vehicle but don't worry - they will come from the waypoint when issued. Likewise you can pop smoke in the same way but you can't select what direction you want the smoke to go. To disembark a squad just tell it to move out of the vehicle to where they want to go. If the vehicle is moving they will wait until the vehicle has stopped (with a pause command or when it reaches the end of its waypoints) before getting out.
Hope that helps - remember there are lots of questions like that one on the CMSF FAQ!
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The thing is that in the game a fireteam is either firing where the insurgents are (massive suppresion, casualties) or arn't firing at all. Because of this, all RPG fire is taken from locations that are not being shot at and so is 'sort of aimed'.
In blackhawk down, the US troops where just hosing down everything as they went passed. That sort of fire is enough to throw of the aim of the insurgents. It is not accurate but the effect of beng shot at, however ineffectivly, seems to badly affect the aim of most insurgents.
That sort of fire is not modelled in the game though so I have never seen it
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Surely if you turn the quality rating down on equipment it becomes less reliable? Maybe scenario designers are not making the quality ratings low enough?
It also has to be said that untrained troops in a firefight will easily make mistakes with an RPG. Common mistakes include not knowing how the sighting system works (Its quite complicated and difficult to to use under pressure), forgetting to cock the launcher, forgetting to pull the pin out of the grenade, not attaching the propellent or not seating the grenade properly in the tube.
The real issue is that untrained uncons may have been shown how to fire the RPG and would get it right most of the time if they went to a firing range but when they get over excited in combat they probably quickly forget the drills.
Because of this, uncons should be very ineffective with the RPG.
In MOUT situations, as far as I know, many insurgents will not aim their weapons. Just point it round some cover and fire off a magazine in the direction of the enemy. This is probably the case with RPG's too as an insurgent will not take the time to aim properly. Just pop up, shoot in the direction of the enemy and displace. The result of this will be a massive volume of fire which does very little damage and this is modelled already in CMSF. I think the RPG fire in CMSF is modelled as if there is no suppression and therefore the insurgent will have at least a little time to aim - at the ranges depicted in Black Hawk Down (less than 50m), the insurgents will hit a fair amount. Accuracy should drop off wildly at the least bit of suppression but I think this is already modelled.
In the regular military, even conscript RPG men will have gone through the drills enough times to successfully launch a live warhead. Accuracy over point blank range will still be a massive issue though due to the afore mentioned sighting system.
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Steve - I know you have given a definate no to the idea of restricting gun elevation but something occured to me about the subject.
I was driving through some hills and thought to myself that it was terrible tank country (yes, that should be on the 'you know you have played too much CMSF' thead
) The reason why: The slopes where too steep and tanks wouldn't be able to elevate their guns.But it occured to be that no sane commander would send tanks into that country. Likewise - if an AI controlled tank can't fire its main weapon due to elevation restrictions it is probably the scenario designers fault for making an AI plan that stops tanks on steep slopes.
The elevation restrictions can be quite generous - not as restrictive as real life so that a minor mistake won't be punished. However - shells comeing at right angles out of the barrel should not be allowed - its extreme but it happened to me once and it was a huge WTF moment that destroyed a carefully planned ambush.
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I think it reflects mistakes made by the FO - it happens to me too but more often when playing with the Syrians. Did you see where the spotting rounds where going?
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Go to the Repository on the Battlefront website and download the CMSF: FAQ - it has loads of stuff to answer all the questions that come up as you start playing the game!
The manual is always a good bet and wikipedia is great to find out about what modern weapons are capable of.
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Why is everyone talking in absolutes?
If elevation was modelled it doesn't have to be as restrictive as in real life - it just has to be enough to stop situations that are obviously stupid.
Sometimes, if a building wasn't cleared properly or if the defender is outflanked you do get tanks right next to buildings full of infantry (It happened to me yesterday) so you do get unreallistic situations.
Also, a 2 or 3m minimum range is basically so you can't stick your tank barrel inside a building before shooting - it has nothing to do with arming ranges for the rounds
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Like Thomm says - don't allow stupid elevations that allow tanks to shoot the tops off skyscrapers.
You can allow a little more depression than is reallistic but put some limits on it. Then you can get into most hull down positions and i honestly think that players will quickly learn what is and isn't too steep just by looking at it. If the AI can't make a shot just make it reverse!
Finally a 2-3m minimum range for the guns can simulate the gun not being able to traverse into a building - have seen tank barrels actually inside a house when it fired. And you are never going to get that close to another vehicle!
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I think that at least some restrictions should be put on tank guns - maybe not realistic restrictions but something to stop those MOUT situations where, as Thomm says, a tank can shoot the 8th floor from 10m away. It would really add something to MOUT by making tanks more vulnerable.
If the player finds it more difficult to find hull down positions then thats just realism isn't it? It will make the game more fluid as you will avoid those hull down v hull down slugging matches.
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You are right there stikkypixie - untrained troops will squeeze the whole magazine off in one go - completely useless except in a point blank ambush
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We've had many long discussions about the use of enemy weapons within the scope of a CM type battle. The conclusion we have come to each time is that it's not worth simulating since it happens so rarely in real life (all kinds of practical issues). Therefore, it won't happen in CM: Normandy.
Would it be possible to allow troops to pick up enemy weapons in a Red v Red Scenario? I always run out of RPG rounds but can't collect more from the enemy positions I just overrun!
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Update: Its now on the repository - enjoy!
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Amazing! Only in Wales
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As much as we love Shock Force, you have to admit its a hard game to get into. My first couple of hours where a struggle as I tried to get to get to grips with unusual game controls, very deadly weapons and a lack of knowledge of what equipment I was using.
Well, to all you new CM: SF players fear not! stikkypixie and I have been working on a guide to help ease you into the game. The CM: FAQ is a collection of hints and tips to help you get started. Its no substitute for the manual but it will help answer all the questions that come up while you find your feet.
The guide is broken down into three sections, a FAQ at the start that will help break down the initial barriers to playing the game, a 'what has changed' section for returning CMx1 players and a glossary of military jargon and acronyms at the end. This will give you some basic tips to keep your troops alive long enough to really get a grip on the game.
We havn't included any tactics but over the next few weeks we will illustrate some basic techniques on the forum - from how to use overwatch to what a modern tank can and can't do. If you spot any errors or have any suggestions feel free to contact us via private message or e mail and we will get back to you!
I've uploaded our guide onto the repository - it should pop up soon!
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"...the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact."
Sorry about that - I'm overworked and have started cutting people down a lot recently
I think you are right about clan affiliations though - I think a lot of people in the west (including me) just don't don't understand how tribal/clan bonds can be stronger to that of the state.
I suppose if people get the impression that the state isn't acting in their intrests they will start to fall back on the traditional networks thet were suppressed under Saddams rule. The fact that some of the clans/tribes clash with the State just makes thing more difficult.
I think the average Iraqi policeman didn't grow up wanting to be a cop, just took the job for the money and gets little respect for it anyway. No suprise that they are not motivated. Add the corruption to that mix and the urge to launch a personal campaign against crime just disappears.
Plus people want to kill you and your family which must be a downer...
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It might just be me but I never feel like I have enough artillery smoke - I probably just use it too much
Infantry usually don't carry more than one grenade per team in my experience but I mainly use infantry smoke with the Syrians so I'm not sure if US forces have more.
Smoke is absolutely vital for me - I love the stuff! (Though waiting 15 minutes for a Syrian smoke mission can get a bit frustrating)
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As far as the comparison to a US police officer goes - I guess the average US cop is far better educated (s/he can read and write and do maths)
Hate to say it but literacy amongst the adult male population in Iraq is 84.1% - It would be hard to find a candidate for the job who isn't literate.
Anyway a police officer can't do his or her job without maths and literacy so all applicants would have to take some sort of test
Iraq is (/was) a pretty well developed country
) The reason why: The slopes where too steep and tanks wouldn't be able to elevate their guns.
Black Hawk Down?
in Combat Mission Shock Force 1
Posted
I am suprised that dud warheads arn't included!
For those who are interested, here is the US army analysis of the RPG-7 I mentioned, it goes into quite a lot of detail about hit probabilities about halfway through. I follow its guidelines and the weapon feels right for me in the game. I havn't tried hitting targets at long range enough to comment on accuracy above 300m though.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/rpg-7.pdf