AslakH
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Posts posted by AslakH
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Agreed. Gameplay of CM series, graphics of something like world in conflict. Perfect game right there. Immersive gameplay, immersive visuals, jobs a gooden.
I also agree on AI. The AI needs to be able to come up with a plan itself. Identify key pieces of terrain, split its forces up, and occupy them. Thats the simplest plan the AI could possibly do besides just move forces toward you and hope for the best. Even if that is implemented so the AI works things out differently every time, and is dynamic enough to do this on user maps. I would be happy.
It would just be done even by simply making the AI pick a list of key terrain features based on the contents of a square 100m of terrain, those with buildings, cover, or more height would obviously be the places to go.
I also only play realtime, because it seems more immersive and thats what I am used to when it comes to playing strategy games. Turn based is good and all but it just doesnt cut it for me. I like to have to react fast to friction.
I would be happy if we could get the planned/scripted AI _but_ you could choose between the "plan" and just "attack objectives". It would help with the creation of simple engagements on custom maps. Right now it takes too damned long.
Realtime is most fun, and realistic. When the crap hits the fan, you can always just pause it for a little while. Some people tend to forget that you can pause the game, plan moves, then unpause. I constantly pause the game, give some orders, unpause and just see what happens. I don't have to wait for the minute to go by.
Having troops that act like robots for 60 seconds isn't realistic. I like babysitting my troops, keeps the casualties low.
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I've noticed that Erwin has some issues/grief with RT.
I haven't played WEGO since CMAK, and I can't understand the hatred for real time. It doesn't get confusing, and I can always order my troops to stop if they make contact/run through a hole in the bocage, before the entire squad is annihalated.
Since I started skulking on these forums in the CMAK-days, I've heard these arguments against RT (just some examples):
It's not realistic (this one is just... wrong).
It's confusing.
You don't get to see any of the pretty graphics.
Because WEGO was the standard for my father and his father before him! It has been like this for generations!
I also can't relate to your statements about APOS. It's not C&C or Starcraft. It's RT, and that would be reason enough to hate it?
Shall I make my list about why slow WEGO-fanatics suck? Us young wrist-twitchers are the future! Out of our way, gramps!
But, no.
Most people play it tactically. It's a bad thing to lose units - they won't come back. You'll be reminded every time you fight there and see the burned out vehicles strewn across the battlefield (not to mention the dead bodies).
Still, the truth is that it has a lot of features that people would like to see in CMBN.
You can dislike it as much as you want, but CMBO was ten years ago.
You should try APOS, but only if you've not made your mind up beforehand.
APOS won't steal any customers from BFC, if anything, CMBN will steal them from GT.
But we can have both. People can enjoy both. I like brunettes AND blondes (no redheads).
If someone says they like RT best, there will ALWAYS be like ten dudes raging and thrusting their E-peens at the screen.
Also, RT vs. WEGO wasn't really even in the topic. There have been lots of threads on that already. Remember: CMBN has both!
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I've played every single Flashpoint game (it confuses the younger crowd, because they never played Operation Flashpoint), and I include ArmA on that list.
Many friends played ArmA2, so I bought in on the hype. It had to be better than ArmA, you know, since this had a 2 at the end. Wrong. It still feels like the old Operation Flashpoint.
I've logged 10x more time in CMSF than I have in ArmA1 or 2.
A few years ago a buddy of mine was going through OCS (I think it's called that in the US), and borrowed Operation Flashpoint to get some "practice". I laughed so hard.
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Do you want an FPS experience or a RTS style game?
Iron Front is coming out soon for ARMA2 and is a paid addon. I cannot immagine tank combat is modelled that well in it either.
But for now RO2 has some pretty immersive tank combat. I am not saying it is the most realistic, but some of the features in tank it models are the best I have seen.
It is of course a much faster paced game than ARMA. But I have never really found ARMA vehicle combat
to be very immersive or realistic.
Steel Beasts Pro PE is the pinnacle however if you want armoured combat. It is what a lot of armies use for training and includes things like recovery vehicles.
Steel Beasts is your panzer elite of today. It is light years ahead of anything else I know of.
Has crunchies in it too which are done reasonably well for a tank sim.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4muMz6usAFg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy8qdN6erMs&feature=related
Of course as you say their is also russian interface in a lot of games.... a new tank game that has russian interface is
there is steel fury and tiger vs t34.... but again russian interface. There is a new russian interface game too which looked good by graviteam called Steel Armor:Blaze of War
If you want close combat 3D with the best features of the earlier combat mission games then this is the right game for you.
RO2 mKIV - of course RO2 is a multiplayer centric game. So sounds like you may not be at home here.
I have to say that the "tank combat" in RO2 sucked. It's just another FPS with vehicles. Kinda like BF3.
Might be the maps, or perhaps it is the obvious hit points system?
I bought Steel Armor last week. I've had fun with it, but the AI sucks harder than ever. It's like they wanted to make a tank sim, but didn't really care. Clunky controls, clunky gameplay, infantry is even worse than in Steel Fury/AP/APOS. You'll run out of ammo before you get knocked out, because the AI is so retarded. Weapons systems seem under researched as well (never ever use ATGMs, they are one-shot weapons and nothing hits on the first shot in SA, and it'll just get KO'd because it only has the one rocket, after that it'll draw fire and costs resources.).
Tiger vs. T-34 is a linear arcade-ish game with painfully bad effects and graphics for such a recent game.
Steel Beasts, now there's a tank sim! Too expensive for me, though. Do you know if it still has a good MP community?
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'Sup with the flame war?
Chillax, brosefs!
Also, judging distance? In the game? For landscaping?
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I checked out some vids of that game and it does look nice but I still prefer CMBN's graphics. I think it comes down to not just the superb modeling but the textures...most other games have always looked cartoony to me...like TOW and this APOS.
I also really like the way squads work in CMBN as opposed to having a bunch of single soldiers on map. It's just more appealing and I enjoy the cohesion and aesthetics of it. Of course there's room for some adjustments when it comes to placement (MG trigger man positioning being one) but over all I am really happy with it.
As far as CMX2/CMBN goes, I feel we are about 85% perfect graphics wise...there are a few minor additions or tweaks (one, that could be seen in APOS) I'd like to see. One would be having an actual animation of the guys moving an AT gun instead of them walking and it sliding. Another would be to have tank commanders both US and German use there binocs once and a while, and maybe AFVs...far as I can tell only the M10 and Priest commanders use binoculars on vehicles...the Marder Commander won't even use his.
Crews bailing out the second an explosion appears...I'd like to see at least 5 to 10 seconds before guys start pouring out of their vehicle. A lot of times they seem to exit the moment the tank has been hit....there should be some lag to represent death, confusion, shock and panic.
Things that could be considered major; would be troops not disappearing from bunkers and open topped vehicles when they get hit. It's probably my number one graphics niggle on two fronts, one it breaks immersion and two, if you aren't paying really close attention you may never know what happened to those guys. The passenger dots help a lot in this respect but once a vehicle is destroyed or abandoned you have no access to any of that info. Even if the bodies lay scattered on the ground, around the vehicle in the spot they were hit, would be enough (with bunkers they could just lay piled on the floor). Interior casualties such as the tank driver, of course, wouldn't need to be represented.
Fire (at this point I'd just be happy if buildings caught fire) and ground to air combat...discussed many times.
Some kind of hit decals. I don't need stuff flying off the vehicles (though I wouldn't object!) but just something that gives us an idea of the vehicle/tank being hurt/knocked out besides a couple open doors. The offset turret wasn't all that bad in CMX1 though something more would be nice.
A few more prepared fighting positions, some stacked logs maybe in a U shape, kinda like a half bunker, and a pile of debris, like chunks of concrete, something that could be placed in buildings as a hasty fortification.
I have a handful of other wishlist stuff, but overall, I think we are really close and it's a testament to BFC's hard work that my list is way shorter than it was back in CMBO times.
Mord.
APOS has a squad-based system, not single soldiers. But I know what you mean, TOW got my piss to a boil more than once with the insane infantry AI/Pathfinding/Combat/Cover system. Also, if a crewmember dies on/in a vehicle in APOS, he will remain there. So you can see the dead driver/marder crewmember sitting there, all bloody. I like it, but it hardly makes any difference.
CMBN has better textures, but I'd say they're pretty even when it comes to the models. The models in APOS might look better because of the dynamic lighting, and I suspect without this they'll look mediocre.
I miss decals. I love looking over the battlefield to see who killed what, etc. But without decals or the "hit arrows", it's hard to tell how it got KO'd.
It would make it a lot better, but it's already purdy good.
Gah, now I want to play CMBN, but I can't. Won't be home until Dec. 25th.
I just realised that CMx2 modules are closely modelled on the Pokémon concept: gotta catch 'em all. I have every module, and will continue to buy every single one that gets released. Damn you, BFC!
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It says something about Battlefront's self confidence that they allow this thread to continue.
Ssshh! Now they'll lock it!
But yeah. CMBN is a more polished and user-friendly product. I'll be playing CMBN for years after I've forgotten about APOS. I still play CMBN more than APOS, and I just got that a week ago.
I am, and will always be, a BFC supporter.
Had lotsa fun with CMBO, and since I was 14 when it came out, none of my friends got it. I was blown away, and they went "meh....".
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This isn't the first thread to compare the two products. While the animations sound interesting, the loss of infantry combat is a real show stopper for me. That is what I get the most enjoyment out of CMBN, but hey more products on the market means more folks are generally happy. Fortunately we do not have to choose, folks can get both if they so desire.
Well, they can't really be compared. I think the thread might have been a bit misleading, but I wrote it as I was on my way out the door, so to speak.
But, as I've said before, think about CMBN with awesome graphics/physics/effects AND the tight BFC style. That would make me have an erection for days.
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I've never gotten tired from walking over a plowed field.... Just sayin'.
It's not like they're harvesting taters and leeks while crossing it.
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I tried the APOS demo. I wouldnt even consider it competition for CMBN at all. Just doesnt have the right feel to me at all. The UI is counterintuitive, you cant seem to click on a lot of things, you need to hit the corresponding keyboard button, etc etc.
And of course like mentioned above, when I saw the infantry fight I was pretty sorely disappointed.
I want the Eastern Front as much as anyone else, but this game wont do it for me. I didnt even stick around to see the vaunted tank on tank combat. If the infantries fudged, or if the game just doesnt feel right at all (UI, issuing orders, etc) I cant play it. This game lost both on that score. Reminded me in a way of Panzer Elite. Had a lot of promise, but when I saw the horrible infantry modelling it.. killed it.
Ah, yes, forgot to mention the UI in my previous post.
The UI has that distinctive "eastern bloc" feel. It's not intuitive at all, but you get used to it. The same goes for the infantry combat - you get used to the suck factor. They'll act like retarded zombie robots most of the time. Never really hitting anything, never really reacting to the situation. BUT, you can order them to take cover in the general area, and if that's, say, a row of houses besides the road, they'll spread out amongst the houses. That move has saved my ass in so many counter attacks. That I like. But it only takes 1-2 shells to destroy a house, or just the one to set it on fire. Also, they'll sometimes leave the house, and run up to a tank to place a HHL. I don't know if it's animated, but they do it. Dat be kool, bro-ham.
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Thanks for the feedback.
"Basic" physics are expensive. There's a reason that APOS only supported a couple handfuls of platoons per battle until recently. I'm not claiming it's physics, but I'd be surprised if they had real physics and it *wasn't* a contributing factor. In CM multiple battalions are not only possible but quite doable. On my middle-of-the-road laptop I regularly play battles involving several battalions of infantry and vehicles.
The thought of trying to explicitly simulate physics-based stimuli and reactions for a thousand or two infantry, or a couple hundred vehicles... well, let's just say it's not something that I think would be possible without crushing most CPUs. I can't rule it out, as I don't make those decisions, but I'd guess it's not high on the priority list.
Explicit multi core support... that'll probably happen, eventually. I don't think it will be all that helpful.
I'm pretty sure that fire has been mentioned elsewhere as something we plan on adding eventually too.
Eye candy will very likely come in various forms, but it'll come when there's time for it. We're all wargamers, too, and we all want eye candy as well (I do!), but there are priorities. BFC has stayed in business a long time and turned out some excellent games by keeping their priorities straight. So... eventually.
And yet, I know a (very) significant number of wargamers with Macs. Including myself. Good thing you're not the one deciding whether a Mac version is worth it, eh?
Well, the physics doesn't need to be extreme, just a tad more interaction with the enviroment and effects. That would add to the immersion a great deal.
As far as power goes, my computer has enough of it. But large CMBN battles with the graphics turned all the way up, then massive artillery strikes, the FPS will drop a bit. But only for a few seconds. Real time for the win!
I don't know a single GAMER with a Mac. Most gamers I know wouldn't even consider a Mac. Don't know why, because I don't know anything aboot that kind of stuff.
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Well, it's not a contest. In content, realism, variety, etc. CMBN will win hands down. But can't we have the best of both worlds, in the future perhaps?
I've always seen AP as a game where you tell your units "go there", and on the way there and once in position, they pretty much do what ever they feel like. It adds to the difficulty.
Infantry in AP/APOS is just sad. Artillery and air support is even worse. Stukas miss by over 500m!!! I've seen that so many times that I stopped counting. Artillery will hit within a small area, call in time is too long for the gameplay style, etc.
AI will get you killed more times than you making a bad move. Oh! And this one: Try ordering a Sd.Kfz 251/2 to give indirect support whilst in cover. They'll fire EVERYTHING, rifles, SMGs, etc. in the general direction of your marker, even though they're 300m away from the target and behind a wooded hill. That's poor AI.
Try to imagine a hybrid. Now that would be sweet-a-rooney-roo!
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That would be neat to have.
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true that!!
also, I'm new to CM but I've played old school war games like panzer leader and squad leader all my adult life and what i want out of a game is not eye candy. I want to be able to play tactics. I want to play a game where I still have the feel of chess game but the thrill of simulated combat. I can't say anything about any other computer game that models tactical combat because so few of them have been made available to us Mac users, for me CMBN is the only computer game like this that I have played. But, I can say that CMBN has everything that I want in a game: realistic LOS, combined arms, and tons of scenarios.
How about when the "eye candy" reflects what would happen in real life?
That's way more realistic than just having a yellow base and a line of text saying "IMMOBILIZED".
I like it when the suspension on vehicles collapses in APOS and the other games with the same engine. It looks good, really good. And that shows a great and detailed damage model.
It started life as a tank sim (Steel Fury), and it shows. The newest tank sim from GT is also good.
Eye candy, as long as it sticks to that pesky "cause and effect", is just awesome. It's not like I would want lightsabers on my Marders, or have a Michael Bay-esque experience.
I'd be happy with some basic physics, fire and decals. And engine improvements to run on multiple cores, etc. After that, CMBN could have the same graphics for ten years and I wouldn't mind.
As for Mac... I don't know a single person that owns one.
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The physics are alright, especially for that kind of game. The engine is from a tank sim, so one would expect it to take all those things into account.
Tanks slide off roads if they corner too fast on the ice, tanks have tremendous momentum and don't just stop when hit. Stuff flies around when explotions abound.
It's overdone some places, and underdone on others. But it looks good when you see a T-34 take a hit, hatches open up, and the damn tank is still in gear and driving at high speed. I saw a abandoned T-34 drive off map once.
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I didn't really mean to offend people with the "**** you if.." thing. I was mostly listing complaints from friends.
As I said, I find CMBN superior to APOS, and it's better where it counts. It's more realistic, feels more "tight", but some of it is still lacking. It's hard to put my finger on exactly what.
I haven't really posted any screenies from AP/APOS anywhere. I posted a screenshot from the CMBN demo, and many people thought it was from a AAA developer, getting E-boners from seeing the awesome Panther and Marder models. Then they tested the demo, and got turned off the game. I've been playing CM all the way since CMBO, so I don't notice all the stuff they moan about.
The MP thing was also complaints from friends, because they mostly play MP.
It would be awesome if we had both AI and scripted/planned stuff. Example: After the final order, you could issue an "attack objectives" order. That way the battle wouldn't just stop. And it would add the element of surprise when hidden enemies come pouring towards the objectives.
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Ah, forgot to say it's "Achtung Panzer: Operation Star".
I found it to be somewhat improved over the first one.
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Well, I've been rocking CMBN hard this december. It still tastes a little sour to me, but I still enjoy it.
A few days ago I bought Achtung Panzer: Operation Star (because it had two types of Marder II!!
).So, just playing that for a while, I wish there was a hybrid between CM and AP.
The damage model in AP is way better, at least visually. It actually has physics, which is standard in 2011. And decals! If a tank explodes, bits and pieces fall off (tracks, track guards, stowage, etc.)
While CMBN is superior in some effects (explotions), infantry combat and unit control, I find it less immersive.
Like this situation I had last night in APOS:
I had a Tiger providing overwatch over a gully which had an objective in a crossroad at the bottom of it. Then I spotted a KV1S rolling across the gully at a range of approximately 450-500 meters. It started driving up the hill on the other side of the gully, exposing it's side to my Tiger. It was an easy target, moving slowly up the steep hill. First shot ripped off the rear track guard. Second shot hit it in the fuel tanks. Crew bailed out, tank started burning very slowly and started to roll back down the hill. Out of the shellhole in the side, a jet of flame shot out and set the brush alight. A trail of fire followed the tracks of the KV1 down the hill. How awesome is that!?
CMBN doesn't have that.
I really wish there was more physics and eye candy in CMBN. It's almost 2012, so stop it with the single core 32x stuff. In the very least decals should be there.
I still find CMBN somewhat superior to APOS. Probably because of the artillery and infantry combat. I do enjoy me some small unit action.
So where does it go from CMBN? Anyone got an idea?
I've spammed my facebook with screenies I took in CMBN, just to spark interest. But the game is too archaic for my friends. No MP (PBEM doesn't count, nor does the RT. It just sucks.), no physics, no AI (it has no real AI. **** you if you think it has.), poor optimisation, not modder friendly (changing skins doesn't count. BFC is all about the DLC now.), etc.
I've noticed that criticism isn't taken lightly here, but I don't care. Just be honest, and share the hopes for the future of CM.
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This game is a mess. Just... horrible.
If something is wrong, it's just abstracted.
It's sad.. I've never owned a game that I've played as little, before uninstalling it, as CMBN. I'll wait till it's wickedly patched.
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I think you have answered your own question
The British Army is called - The British Army.
Now if you believe that every-one in Britain has bad teeth, I think you are a victim of Hollywood (and the Simpsons)
All brits have nasty ass teeth.
Prove me wrong by linking some picture of an immigrant with good teeth.
Brits = Bad teeth. This is fact.
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I made a scenario and got the "Out of contact" label for some reason, and I thought "What is this ****!?".
After fiddling around in the editor, it went back to normal. I just make sure they are linked up nice and tight before starting the battle.
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I used some ATGs in some scenarios, and I didn't like them one bit.
Why?
Because I didn't. Way better than the ones in APK1943, though.
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As I said: They will never change.
Get used to Mausers and MP40s, lads!
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I have noticed that armor accumulate damage.
Which is strange?
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I once saw an M10 take two 81mm Mortar rounds DIRECTLY on the turret roof (or directly into the fighting compartment), and not a single crewmember was wounded. And I hit the M10 quite hard with mortar fire. It survived without a scratch.
I don't use armor anymore in CMBN. I've had so many anomalies with spotting, hit detection, NO damage bugs, etc. (I had a StuG fire at an M8 HMC and getting hit after hit, penetrating all over the vehicle. It had all green boxes, no suppression and managed to KO the StuG after recieving 10+ direct hits at 150m. This happens all the time).
Imma hold off on the nerdy testing and ranting about the game. I am sure it will be patched.
When I see a bug I just shrug and think "Oh well", because I don't have a save game.
What am I? 60? RT for the win.
King Tiger, unfinished, lacking detail?
in Combat Mission Battle for Normandy
Posted
So, now eye candy is important?
BFC and BFC fans need to agree on what's important. Visual quality or gameplay.
Physics, visual damage models, etc. are just eye candy.
BFC should just give us green 3D boxes for the allies, and grey 3D boxes for the axis. People would still pay $60 for it.
I was seriously disappointed with this module. I will not be buying another one.
$35 is just a rip off! Reskinned german infantry, and reskinned with sucky textures.
Waffen-SS is just the regular flippin' WH infantryman, but with low-res erbsenmuster texture.
BFC said that smocks could/would be done, but hey, why increase the work load and quality?
New german tanks look like crap. They belong back in the 1990's. Only reason the Jagdpanther looks any better is because it was completed with the base game.
New allied vehicles don't look that much better. Where's the interiors? Where's the polish?
We're heading back to CMx1 quality.
I will not recommend this heinously overpriced piece of DLC to anyone (maybe if it was $5).
No patch will come to fix this ****ty mess. I'm out.
Been playing CM since CMBO, but this one just filled the glass 2-girls-1-cup style.