Neutrino 123

My imperial siege artillery has been very active lately. They finished off Namur and the south-west fortresses of Antwerp. In addition, some other siege and heavy units are slowly working on the Verdun salient. The French have conducted another major retreat. I’m a little surprised, since it was actually past where I wanted to advance. Still, the temptation to move forward is too great, and I order my finest guards units to secure the northern suburbs of Paris for the Greater Reich. Unfortunately, the damn pesky BEF is guarding Paris! It’s too strong, and my siege artillery won’t be effective against the Paris fort, so Paris is still out of the cards... for now. I finally cracked and sent major reinforcements to the east. The Russian pressure was too great, and I can’t afford the DM points for losing Allenstein and other cities in East Prussia. Beside, who really cares about France anyway? I already have a nice defensible line there. It’s time to deal with the east. First, two corps and many cavalry divisions (which freed an addition three infantry divisions screening Poland) were sent east, and the front was reorganized. Now, sufficient forces are in place to hold off the Russian 1st and 2nd armies, and a cavalry screen is in Poland. Finally, one infantry corps was sent to the south flank to help the Austrians secure their left flank on the Galician front. Melissa took advantage of my weak cavalry screen to launch an attack. It wounded my poor cavalry division near Lodz! Anger rising forth, I sent my adjacent cavalry division to surround the attackers in turn, and used the efficient German rail system to bring in additional brigades. The enemy battlegroup was trapped, and failed to break out, surrendering the following turn. Unfortunately, it was only 6-7 strength points worth of units... not even a full corps. On the Galician front, the Russians are advancing, but the Austro-Hungarian line stiffened behind Prezmyl, maintaining contact with the important fort. On the other hand, the Russian 8th army on the east end of the line has outflanked the Austrians, achieving some success in the Carpathians. Not much has happened on the Serbian front. The Austro-Hungarian 6th army continues its plodding advance, and each side suffers some casualties. http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/4913/francer.jpg http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1121/parisr.jpg http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3420/prussiar.jpg http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/2262/lodzr.jpg http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3867/galiciar.jpg http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2913/serbiar.jpg

Hello, what is BGG?

The Germans slip through a hole in the Entente line, crossing the Marne! Unfortunately, these divisions are cut off in a powerful Entente counterattack combined the BEF and the French 4th and 5th armies (they some traded places... crazy French). The German response is immediate, breaking through in another lightly held area over the Marne, and rescuing the two trapped corps before they surrender. Truly a miracle at the Marne! http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8159/trappedr.jpg http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1746/breakthroughr.jpg

Through Turn 1 September 1914 In France, the Entente is in full flight, and my light screening forces have reached the coast along the Somme. Unfortunately, I find that I don’t have enough troops to continue the offensive on a broad front, and the 1st army curves inward, away from the Somme. The Aisne is crossed, and German units reach the Marne, surrounding a small French fortress with an infantry corps in it. An entire army of reinforcements from the 5th-7th army areas is on the way to the right flank... The Prussian front isn’t going so well. Damn Melissa for not letting me surround her guys. My armies are still withdrawing, and the Russians have finally attacked with the 1st army. The attack didn’t go well for them, but I can’t sustain this attrition. I’ll have to send reinforcements soon, or East Prussia will fall, along with its precious cities (German cities count double for demoralization points). In Galicia, the Austro-Hungarians have concluded their mandatory attacks, which went slightly better than historically, both sides suffering moderate losses. They are now in full flight from the stronger Russian forces, running for the Carpathian Mountains... The Serbian front is going better for us Central Powers. Of course, this is because my Sam transferred a mere two divisions of the second army to Galicia (despite my repeated requests to strip that front bare). Bah, damn perfidious Austrians. Things are still quiet in the north around Belgrade, but both sides are suffering steady attrition in the mountains, with the Serbians gradually retreating... Unfortunately, it looks like the Entente frontline is stiffening. The French have left mostly fortresses in the east, transferring their mobile infantry divisions to the west, where the action is. I doubt I’ll be able to take Paris, the siege artillery is too far behind, and busy reducing fortress Namur (Liege was destroyed recently). My plan now is to obtain a good frontline for an offensive in the future. This will be along the Somme, with the forested area in front of Paris captured, and a bridgehead over the Marne in a defensible forest. I will also transfer the siege artillery to Verdun, to reduce part of that Salient (Verdun itself is out of the cards – the fortresses in that area are too powerful). http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/4913/francer.jpg http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3420/prussiar.jpg http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3867/galiciar.jpg http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2913/serbiar.jpg

The attack against French 4th and 5th army units on August turns 5 and 6 is so rapid and decisive that three French divisions become exposed, and are surrounded! A nice bag to add to a couple other smaller ones. The second battle of Sedan has gone almost as well as the first... http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1815/sedanr.jpg http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/6121/sedanpocketr.jpg

I start off with an attack on Liege, necessary to dislodge the infantry defenders there. I then push forward with my cavalry divisions. My 2nd army will advance south of the Meuse, so it’s important to keep this corridor free of enemy ZOCs. French cavalry try to screen, but they’re not very effective. Some French infantry take unoccupied Mulhouse. They will pay for this slight against the fatherland! Turn 3 of August is when the real action starts. My invincible German infantry divisions of the 1st and 2nd armies advance north and south of Liege, while the siege artillery is brought up to destroy that fortress. The 3rd and 4th armies advance through the Ardennes. In Alsace-Lorraine, I organize my forces to repel the inevitable French offensive. In the east, screening groups of the 1st Russian army are met by my 8th army, while in Serbia, the Austro-Hungarians begin their attack, achieving a minor success. French cavalry is brushed aside, allowing for rapid progress of the 1st and 2nd armies. The German cavalry push through Lille, and forward infantry divisions outflank the BEF, reaching as far as Amiens by turn 5. The BEF and French 5th army take flight, the latter losing a couple reserve divisions surrounded in its haste. The French 1st-4th army attacks on turn 5 hit powerful German forces of the 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 7th armies, suffering heavy losses, though my usual poor die rolls prevent total disaster. In Prussia, the German 8th army conducts a delaying action, slowing falling back as the Russian 1st and 2nd armies advance methodically. So far, casualties on both sides are extremely light. An opportunity arose to punish a corps of the Russian 1st army, but I didn’t’ attack, fearing that my forces would be surrounded in turn... Right now, I need my forces in France... In Galicia, both sides are slower to mobilize, but the Austro-Hungarians begin their attacks, with both sides suffering moderate casualties. Finally, on the Serbian front, the north is very quiet. Almost too quiet... The only action is in the southern mountains, where the Serbs and Montenegrins slowly fall back, and the Austro-Hungarian 7th army steadily advances. Overall, my German forces have advanced very quickly on the west front, but the east is worrying. Melissa is not launching any suicidal attacks like I hoped she would, and is not really leaving any important units exposed to attack. My 8th army will need to defend against both armies simultaneously... Hopefully long enough for me to reach the Seine in France... Sam and Melissa have been quite timid overall, and Rob is on the run. I’m the only one doing anything around here... http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4913/francer.jpg http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/3420/prussiar.jpg http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3867/galiciar.jpg http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/2913/serbiar.jpg

Der Weltkrieg Grand Campaign Replay This will be a 4-player battle report for the tabletop game series Der Weltkrieg (by SPW and Decision Games), with all games in the series linked together to simulate all the major land fighting of WWI. Der Weltkrieg is a mostly divisional-level operational combat game with 20km per hex and 4 days per turn (7 per month). It has many good features allowing the game to be of reasonable complexity, yet very realistic. As my favorite series, I have done some volunteer editing of Der Weltkrieg to help make new editions of the rules. The best place for Der Weltkrieg discussion is probably Consimworld, which is at: http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@276.2Md4a5BApju.12555832@.ee6ded6 Central Powers: I will command the Imperial German forces on all fronts. My units are known for their discipline and stylish hats. The former is important, for in a less disciplined army (*cought*alltheotherones*cough*), the stylish hats would cause significant casualties before the war even starts. If things don’t go well for me, I’ll just edit the rules in a certain way... I am also known for my stylish hat. My brother Sam, new to wargaming, will command the Austro-Hungarian forces. His forces are known for their multi-cultural perspective. He will also take over the Ottoman Empire and Bulgaria later on as they join in. Entente: My father Rob, an experienced wargamer, will command the Western Allies (Great Britain, France, Belgium, and later some others) and Serbia and Montenegro. His forces are known for their willingness to attack, regardless of the battlefield situation. He will later take over Greece if they enter the war. My sister Melissa, new to wargaming, will command the forces of the Russian Empire. Her forces are known for getting themselves surrounded at the darndest of times. She will add the Italians and Romanians when they join the war, and is known for personally engaging enemy generals in hand-to-hand combat when disgruntled. In Europe, we have the German forces poised to march through Belgium and on to Paris. Meanwhile, the French are deployed to attack Alsace-Lorraine and through the Ardennes. In the east, the brave, stoic men of the 8th army are ready to hold off the Russian hordes themselves. Further south, the Russians and Austro-Hungarians are set to attack each other with their main forces. In the south, Austria-Hungary is mobilizing to punish those upstart Serbs. The war has begun... http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/1375/franceturn1august1914r.jpg http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5670/eastfrontturn1august191.jpg http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7186/prussiaturn1august1914r.jpg http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2039/galiciaturn1august1914r.jpg http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5346/serbiaturn1august1914r.jpg Sorry images are a bit blurry. This is fixed, but not until October...

The artillery model is quite an improvement. Two things that might have been overlooked: 1. A timer near the artillery would be useful for an estimate of how much longer the main strike is going to take to arrive. There is an initial estimate, but then one has to try to remember the exact time the strike was called for. 2. After a fire mission, the artillery should have a target reference point, allowing them to immediately fire for effect again in the same or nearby area without use of more spotting rounds.

I think the "door" is only in one of the buildings, so you can't go through. I just wish I could enter through windows...

I haven't noticed it near this bad. However, I have found what appears to be an annoying anomoly in the camera controls. When using the w-s-a-d camera pan controls, the 3D view often moves in fits and stars, sometimes pausing. I originally thought this might have something to do with graphics load times, but when using the mouse (moving the cursor to the edges of the screen) to pan around on the screen, everything works smoothly.

It appears that the Herbivourous Monopods map crashes when at 74% trees when loading for everyone. Is there any way to take this out of rotation until it gets fixed?

The server seems to have ever-increasing amounts of lag. Can't we go back to the settings from a few patches ago when multiplayer worked perfectly?

Hello, Battlefront.com. I think your reasons for not including in-game detailed information about weapons are mostly valid (though I personally would be willing to wait a couple more weeks and pay a couple mroe dollars for full inclusion), but I am sure many people are highly interested in this information. Do you think it would be possible to perhaps at least include a txt file with the relevant data? Hopefully this would be easy to generate, and it would surely make many grognards very happy.

ClaytoniousRex, I am not sure what you mean by “clamping”. In the area objective battles, isn’t the maximum points one could get clamped at 1000? Alexander SquidLord Williams, if the attacker adopts a stand-off policy, then there is no reason the defender could not do the same, with the added advantage of base terrain and laser turrets. Thus, the attacker could try to achieve a far better kill ratio under these conditions, or actually try to secure the base while to having massive losses, the success of which would then give a significant advantage. Basically, what I want to see in area objective battles is for kills to matter, so if one side does a LOT better then the other side in kills, but still loses the objective, they might be able to eek out a victory. I don’t want to think, “Oh, that computer is on the other side of the map. Killing it would be counterproductive since then it might drop closer and immediately be a threat,” or “I will leave that partly disabled guy right there, since killing him would make the computer drop a mobile units, which could be dangerous.” I’ve found the Mercury to be very effective, since it can basically serve as a tracked, fast 20mm vehicle. Sure, it does not have the speed of the 20mm Paladin, but it tracks and low profile make up for that. There is no need to additionally make is super-hard to destroy. As a side note, did you know that artillery is much more accurate if you call with a line of sight? HE artillery usually don’t do much except to very light vehicles, but a well placed EMP barrage can turn the tide of a game. I’ve found it to be very easy to get flank shots against Thors with the 20mm. At any rate, Thors are only around for the first part of the game, at which time both sides have things that can kill the Thor from the front, much less the side. If the 76mm did more damage, it would be a good choice to conduct flank attacks against the Thor.

I would like to reiterate and expand upon my previously mentioned scoring suggestion. First of all, I still think that the attacker and defender should have identical victory conditions. “They only have one vehicle here and we have five!” might be an undesirable response to “Have you successfully defended the objective?”. However, “Well, we have one hiding vehicle there and they have five!” is an even more unsatisfactory response to “Have you successfully captured the objective?” Thus, I think that ratios are the best thing to determine objective control. I will refer to units as “points” sometimes here for reasons that will become clear in due time... The absolute number of units near the objective should not matter. If one side has only one unit near the objective, while the other side has nothing, then full control should be awarded. This should prevent objective clumping in nearly all circumstances. However, when two sides have points at an objective, the control should be based on the number of points each side has. If one side has more points then the other side, then the side with more point should get points according to the following formula: Rate of point gain = (normal gain)*(# of points in majority side - # of points in minority side)/(total # of points) Finally, so that it is important to completely clear an objective of enemy units, not just have a majority there, the maximum number of victory points one could gain from controlling an objective would be: Maximum victory points = (normal maximum)*(# of points in majority side - # of points in minority side)/(total # of points) To rebalance the scenarios, the number of each unit type that the defender ahs could be reduced by ¼ or so. Now for the points. Each unit should have an individual point value, which would count for objective capturing AND kill points. That’s right. I am suggesting that unit kills play an important role in scoring. In certain scenarios, they rarely will have an effect, but this only happens if the two sides are very close at the end of an objective game, or each side ties in a building objective or flag capture game. I believe it should be possible to win an area objective game even if the opponent has full control over the objective at the end based on a greatly superior kill ratio. “Pyrrhic” victories are not really victories at all. We could keep the 1000 point value for the objective games, and maybe ramp up the flag capturing value to 200 or 500 (or somewhere in between). Each unit could have a different number of points. For example, here are some numbers that may be roughly balanced for a 1000 point objective scenario: Thor-120 50 Thor-ion 40 Thor-mortar 40 Apollo-120 35 Apollo-20 25 Apollo-ion 30 Apollo-mortar 30 Paladin-76 25 Paladin-20 20 Paladin-ion 25 Paladin-mortar 25 Paladin-ATGM 20 Hermes/Bacchus 35 Cutter 35 Command Vehicle 50 Shrike 15 Hurricane 50 Tempest 35 Turret 5 Infantry specialist 2 Infantry rifleman 1 Sensor 1 Sensor jammer 1 Viper 150 Dropship 100 So for example, if one side has the objective, but loses the equivalent of 20 MORE Thors then the enemy, they will still lose the game, though probably not by much (could different ‘levels’ of victory be introduced?) While I’m at it, I may as well make some more suggestions in other areas: The command vehicle and to a lesser extent, the Cutter, seem to be VERY resistant to penetrating shots. This is surprising for the command vehicle since it is so cramped, so it should be quite vulnerable to penetrating damage, but it seems to much for even the cutter (in most instances). For example, I put 50 76mm AP rounds into various points of a cutter’s side armor, and then put 5ATGMs into it, but all I did was immobilize it :eek: . It committed suicide before I could give it the finishing blow... I think making these things a little more vulnerable won’t hurt... Thors really need to be more fearsome. Bump up their side armor so that it’s immune to 20mm at all ranges and angles! I think this has been mentioned before, but 76 and 20 millimeter HE rounds are useless against units. I even prefer 76mm AP for killing infantry at close range... I still don’t think the 76mm is powerful enough. It flies and penetrates well, but it doesn’t do enough damage. I speak not on an absolute scale, but compared to the 20mm. A three round burst of 20mm will often kill a unit from the side, but it takes a similar number of 76mm rounds to do the same thing! A 76mm round should have at least 50x the mass of the 20mm, unless it is odd-shaped or a sabot, but even then it should be much more. The 20mm round’s greater velocity should not be sufficient to give it roughly equal killing ability, especially since we know that the 76mm penetrates more armor in the first place. Wasn’t the 76mm supposed to “overpenetrate”, or was that changed? Overall, I recommend that the 76mm retain its current penetration, but gain improved damaging ability. If this unbalances units too much (right now I think that the 76 unit is still weaker in game terms then others), then its rate of fire should be reduced.

I think that the initial mines are now deployed in clusters as well, and randomized... Edit: Sorry, I didn't mean mines. I meant things that look like mines... [ September 18, 2006, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Neutrino 123 ]

Hello, I am wondering if a new set of victory conditions has been determined? Another battle just happened where the attacker won by cowering one unit in a small nook in a hill, gaining points despite the defender having several units stationed on the objective!

What we need to balance current scenarios are more balance between the conditions in which the attacker and defender get control of the objective. In fact, both the attacker and defender should get points for the objective in the same way. This means that if the attacker has one unit near the objective and the defender has four, the attacker should not get any points, but rather, the defender should be gaining points (if it needs any). Basically, there should be some well-chosen radius of control of the objective. If one side has about twice as many or more units near the objective compared to the other side, then the side with twice as many units should count as controlling the objective, and thus get points rapidly (the new patch already increases the rapidity, thgouh, so this point is probably fine now). Of course, this would unbalance all maps in favor of the defender. The situation could easily be remedied by giving the attacker more resources then the defender. For example, the defender's current number of each unit type and/or dropships could be cut by 1/3.

The servers are still highly unstable, though there doesn't seem to be a set time it crashes as far as I know...

I've played a couple rounds with the new patch. However, it seems to crash at the very end of the one that comes after "Hide and Seek", and then resets back to "Hide and Seek".

Wow, what a ruckus that manuever caused. I would like to clarify some points (I was the one who did that). 1. The entire thing was a JOKE. I was not aware of any flaw in the map before I entered the building. I thought that the deployment was similar to the old capture-the-flag style games, so I was looking for the edge of the deployment zone. When I found that there was none, I decided to jump onto other player's heads (and then redeploy), but then saw the building. Since I had never entered building with infantry before, I wanted to try it. 2. I stayed in the building since I thought it would be amusing, and wanted to see what would happen. I wasn't even sure that it would work... 3. When I saw that it did work after the game start, I knew something was wrong with the map. Not wanting to unbalance the game, I quickly jumped out of the building and went on a suicide charge. My total kills in the building were two vehicles and one infantry squad, and I lost the entire infantry squad. 4. I then deployed another unit and started attacking normally. Based on my kill rate with that, and other times I've played the map, I could have done more by not using an infantry squad and just deploying my usual 76mm Paladin (I love the 76mm now... ), in the time when I was messing around with the infantry. 5. Since I usually play online with two other new players (family members), I was in fact, directing their tactics, not trying to acoid tactics. If I had REALLY wanted to ruin the game, I would have deployed a 20mm infantry unit (not the ion unit that I used) and then never left the center. I am usually using voice-coms now with the two other new players, so don't type at my normal rate. Unfortunately, Dark_Au left before I could explain this in response to his complaints. As a side note, I'm sure this map can be quickly fixed. In the mean time, I usually try to have another friendly player occupy the center building as the defender. By the way, this map seems to always come up now. What happened to all the other maps? It seems that now, there is only rotation between Hide and Seek, the bridge map, the zero-atmosphere moon map, and two other nondescript maps (one more open, one hilly). Can't all the objective maps be rotating on the server? Finally, I've never noticed anyone using mines to drop on people's head, so find it odd that people are complaining so much about this. It should be fixed, but it sure seems to have high priority...

This is an interesting suggestion. However, I would think that in practice, a dictatorship doing this would keep some conventional forces around, sort of like a small "Republican Guard". This would offset many disadvantages of this method, though of course not totally.

Well, that's why the antimatter would need to be contained. The cannon round would need to generate the necessary magnetic fields long enough to contain the antimatter before a hit. Then the detonation method could simply be turning off the containment. Clearly, in Dropteam, only 'primative' antimatter containment is avalible, so it is only used as a power source rather then a weapon. Furthermore, new antimatter in the Dropteam universe can't be created (at least in signifigant quantities) due to technology regression, so what is avalible needs to be used sparingly.

You are correct, BUT if the rocket runs out of fuel before it hits the target, then it will be slowing down before it hits the target. Most rockets only have enough fuel for a short burst of acceleration before they start slowing down. Also, I just had a couple battles in which I used infantry very effectively. In one, I moved them through water, killing several turrets and sensors. Then I popped up near the enemy flag and killed two Thors. This softened up the area enough for me to assault with a fast vehicle. In the other, my infantry were able to destroy a couple light vehicles on a road and the remnants of an enemy infantry squad before I extracted them.

Are you sure it takes three shots to kill infantry? I'm almost certain that I have killed them with one, or even with one 10mm hit...