AOK. 11

Hello friends, I just finished reading Seven Days in January: With the 6th SS-Mountain Division in Operation NORDWIND by Wolf T. Zoepf, and I thought it was an excellent read. I am posting to ask if any of you experts out there could give me some advice on further reading on the subject of the Gebirgsjäger. Any subject will do; general information, equipment, organization, personal memoirs, operational history, and so on. I would appreciate any advice. I should have put this in the general forum, but too late now..Thanks! XI

Bear with me friends, and listen to my narrative…. My narrative will explain my thread topic… (if your out there MG42, this is not the events in our game, it happened AGAIN) 3000 QB August 1943 Central Russian steppe, large map, dawn, clear weather, little tree cover Perfect tank country I command Red Army troops I won’t go into too much detail, as it would take away from my point. The battle progresses, and at one point I am in a tough spot. At one point on the map, an enemy Panther and a Panzer III (a later model with 50+20mm and 50mm/L60 KwK, I will therefore call it an Ausf L) are both in an excellent position overlooking a large portion of the battlefield. The main engagement is underway to the northwest of this point and apparently, we both had the same idea to move around each other’s flank, thus meeting. The armor forces available in the area were a lend-lease M3A1 Stuart, one SU-76M self-propelled gun, one T-34/76 model 1943, two T-34/57’s, and one SU-85 tank destroyer. My armor was concentrated behind a ridge, running some 250 meters and providing complete cover. I had spotted the Panzers when my Stuart went over the top and spotted them, before retreating. The Panzers were at a range of about 900 meters on a ridge of their own; however, the crest of my ridge and his ridge were fairly similar, eliminating any height advantage. The enemy had advanced forward to the downward slope, past any hull-down position. I decided to force the issue, as I needed to eliminate these panzers and advance on his flank; while any delay would be advantageous to the enemy. I decided to attempt to draw the Panther and Panzer IIIL by sending the Stuart and T-34/76 as bait. After one crests the ridge where my forces were, the terrain was suitable for quick movement, as it was a long stretch of flat steppe. Both the Stuart and T-34/76 are ideal for this action, with max speeds of 36 and 34 mph respectively. The Stuart would advance northwest, the T-34/76 northeast, as fast as they could go. After about 12 seconds my other forces: one SU-76M self propelled gun, two T-34/57’s, and one SU-85 tank destroyer would crest the ridge, (about 60m apart, SU-76M on left, SU-85 in center, and T-34/57’s on right) and engage the enemy. Shortly after the main force came into range, the Stuart and T-34/76 would carry out their shoot/scoot orders, firing a round before advancing further on the enemy’s flank. The plan was to draw the enemy’s weapons away from the ridge, then bring in the main force and quickly destroy the Panzer IIIL, then overwhelm and shoot the Panther into submission. Here is where my topic of laser guided munitions come into play… Things began as planned, the Stuart and T-34/76 moved swiftly over the crest of the ridge, and rushed into the vast steppe; quickly reaching top speed. As planned, the enemy armor began to take the bait: The Panther’s 75mm/70 KwK following the T-34/76, the Panzer IIIL’s 50mm/60 KwK following the M3A1 Stuart, both guns moving away from the ridge. I was confident that things would out well…. After following the target for about 5 seconds, the Panther fired his first round. It was a direct hit on the side of the turret of the T-34/76. The ammunition cache was set alight and the entire tank, including the crew, was obliterated. Apparently, achieving first round accuracy on a target at 900m and moving at 34 mph is no problem for a Panther. Meanwhile, after he had tracked the Stuart for about 5 seconds the Panzer IIIL also fired his first round. Again, it was a direct hit on the side turret of the Stuart. Three of the crew were killed and the rest attempted to bail out. However, they had difficulty, as the Stuart continued to roll about 100 meters after it was hit. The crew was about to bail when the second 50mm round penetrated into the ammunition cache causing it to explode, killing the survivors. Apparently, achieving first round accuracy on a target at 900 meters and moving at 36 mph is not problem for a Panzer IIIL. With the bait destroyed, the Panther and Panzer IIIL were waiting when my remaining armor came into range. You can guess what happened. My opponent said both panzer crews were veterans. We all have much respect for an experienced and well trained tank crew; however, is what I have described in anyway accurate as to the abilities of historical men and machine? Any thoughts would be appreciated… Now on to cloaking devices… I was playing an average CMBB PBEM scenario in autumn 1943, playing again with the Soviets. At one point I was in position to achieve a victory, having been able to move a significant armored force into the deep flank of the enemy undetected. I was about to spring my ambush and crush the enemy when things went wrong. All of the sudden and Panzer VI Tiger appeared in the complete rear of my forces that had penetrated into enemy lines. No warning, no sound contact, nothing. At the end of one turn he is not there, at the beginning of the next he appears. Needless to say, I was not prepared for this. Soviet armor is not designed to withstand rounds from an 88mm/56 KwK fired at 25 meters. All available weapons turned on the beast but the Tiger just smiled and continued to fire point blank 88mm rounds, ravaging anything that moved. As one can imagine, the slaughter was horrible. After the Tiger had put ten tanks out of action, the beast turned his 88 and machine guns on the unfortunate crews who had so far survived the massacre. Nobody escaped. I am not fond of Panzer VI Tigers equipped with cloaking devices, able to teleport to any position without emitting any sound. :confused: Obviously, this incident was a reinforcement that occurred at an inopportune time. However, this kind of incident can completely ruin a game, and reinforcement should have some kind of proximity adjustment rules. Any thoughts on these two incidents are appreciated…

I did not bother to read this whole thread, as I stopped with "MAKE CM REAL TIME" and "FORGET ABOUT MILITARY REALISM"... I know we are supposed to be nice to people here, even idiots, so I will not say anything. Anyway, If I mention somthing already discussed, forgive me. One of the main strengths of CM is the detail, and adding to this would be a given. More units, of course. Being the fact that the new game will be an entirely new engine, I would imagine with new technology larger battles will be better accomodated. With larger battles the possibilities are expansive, with heavier weapons and equipment gaining a place in a battle. Sure, the 12.8cm Pak 44 is represented in CM, but when was the last time you thought, "I REALLY need a Pak 44!". How about a dual 12.8cm Flakzwilling emplacement? This list could go on and on.... I am not sure if making CM more accomadating to larger battles would then in effect pull away from its superiority in smaller, battalion sized actions. I would like to hear any thoughts on this...

By the way, not overclocked

AMD Athlon XP 3200+ 1034MB Ram Geforce 6800 GT 256MB ______________________ 52 secs 53 secs 55 secs 53 secs 54 secs

Am I the only person to favor the old Pz.Kpfw. III?.. Especially from Ausf J(late) and on. The 50mm/60 gun and 50+20 armor are both quite effective and Panzer III's (of all Ausf) have always served me well. Don't forget the Pz.Kpfw. III!, as it contributed greatly to all the incredible early war Wehrmacht victories. XI

I am finally going to upgrade and I wanted to ask advice on the performance of the newer Nvidia cards. (Geforce 5700 and up) Is there any significant difference of the various newer models and performance running CM? What is the relative performance of these cards on newer software (most notably Doom 3)? What is the best choice based on cost effectiveness and performance? I am leaning toward the budget version of the new 6800 line (128mb). Any advice would be appreciated, Thanks!

Some of you may have read the thread on my previous QB battle. In this battle I won easily, however, I was convinced to give a re-match. In this QB I would command Red Army formations. The conditions were similar, 3000 QB, August 1943. We were to put together realistic forces with a strong infantry component. I did so. I thought that my opponent would do so as well. My opponent's idea of a realistic force with a strong infantry component was the following: 10x Green Sturmgeschütz IIIG (early mid) Platoon 2x Regular Sharpshooter 1x Regular Rifle Platoon 1x Regular MG34 LMG Apperently, he just wanted revenge and I do not feel that this force complies with the conditions. 30 Green Sturmgeschütz IIIG is a bit much. In light of the situation, I have composed a bit of prose: "Thirty Sturmgeschütz IIIG and ME" by XI Thirty Sturmgeschütz IIIG and ME They came to TEA They came to STAY They stayed all DAY They approached in mass, a FLOOD To bring death, a river of BLOOD T34's opened point-blank, everything BOUNCED The StuGs were invulnerable, my T34s were TROUNCED My armor disintegrated in a fury of FLAME A horrible slaughter, without aim or NAME The StuGs turned, still hungry for MURDER Infantry was massacred, utill I had nothing FURTHER Somebody must do something about these BEASTS! Overmoddled, eating flesh and bone at their FEASTS! Oh my!, Oh ME! Thirty Sturmgeschütz IIIG and ME! ..I know this has been talked over hundreds of times, but this incident was a culmination of frustration. It is a horrible, and completely inaccurate part of an otherwise beautiful game.

(Die Ausbildung und das Panzerschieben) ... I'm trying my best here...Ok, Fine! You found me out, I didn't take German in grade school..I took LATIN! BEHOLD YOUR EMPEROR! Imperator Caesar Augustus (AHEM!)...I took Latin ...and I would encourage everyone to do the same..

I just purchased "Panzertaktik" - by Wolfgang Schneider and I was wondering if anybody else out there had any experience with this book. For those of you that don't... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0921991525/qid=1089140510/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-4811710-6991241?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 I will give you a brief description of the index... Chapter I - Offensive Operations (Der Angriff) Chapter II - Defensive Operations (Die Verteidigung) Chapter III - Unit Movements (Der Marsch) Chapter IV - Reconnaissance (Die Aufklaerung) Chapter V - Command and Control (Die Fuhrung) Chapter VI - Logistics and Maintenace (Die Logistik and Instandsetzung) Chapter VII - Combined Arms Operations (Die Zusammenarbeit) Chapter VIII - Life in a Panzer (Das Leben im Panzer) Chapter - IX - Training and Panzer Gunnery (Die Ausbildung und das Panzerschieben) Chapter X - Armor Tactics-Today and Tomorrow (Panzertaktik-heute and morgen) The layout consists of the material that the chapter discusses laid out in text, maps, and graphs followed by a section of pictures of Panzers and support forces enguaged in that type of action. The text, maps, and graphs are presented well and very informative. They cover the chapters subject thoroughly. However, I would guess that about 50% of the book's 512 pages are dedicated to pictures. They are of very high quality, and most of these are from previously unpublished sources. Moreover, the pictures illustrate the subject of the chapter and help the reader get a visual idea of the tactical doctrine contained therein. The tactical doctrine discussed was obtained through a variety of sources: training manuals from the period, after-action reports, and countless interviews with Panzer veterans. In addition, the tactics contained in the book concentrate on action from battalion size down. I just purchased the book so I have not had time to read it thoroughly. However, the material and pictures look superb. As I had mentioned earlier, I am wondering if anybody had previous experience with this work and if they had any thoughts as to its value.

It started a few hours after my last post, so I did not implement Joachim’s excellent suggestions. However, it turned out all right. I thank everyone for their input… First off, unlike I have been saying, this map is NOT “small hills”. It has many major inclines in elevation, with that in mind, I can continue. The battle has concluded and it was a total victory for the Axis. However in this case "total victory" is far too forgiving to the Red Army. Apparently, my opponent did not read this thread because my plan was executed and ran like clockwork, with only a few minor adjustments. All of your advice contributed heavily to my success and so I will provide a short summary of the engagement. The first part of the battle was obviously spent on conducting proper reconnaissance and choosing the best place in with to set up my defensive front. Luckily, the map that was generated had a number of good places for deployment. The one I chose was on the extreme east area of the map and consisted of elevated terrain that dominated a large clearing. The heights were very wide and moderately wooded (enough cover for concealment) and were the second highest point on the map. The considerable size of the heights gave me confidence that I could deploy my units in a manner in which they could support each other and have a good sight to fire on the clearing. As for the clearing, I could not have designed better terrain to defend. It was completely bare except for a few sections of tall pines, a stretch of some 400 meters that provided no cover or some cover in an artillery deathtrap. The clearing was solid ground, as the weather was good, and was surrounded by thick woods to the northwest, the heights to the south, the end of the map to the east, and scattered trees to the west. The entrance to the clearing was a large gap to the northeast. The map was fairly heavily forested and armor did not have the freedom of movement that one would like. This being the case, this clearing could be of some use to the attacker if you made sure the passage was safe. In addition to all this, this position was also fairly close to my assembly area, so I could have plenty of time to deploy troops and support weapons on the heights and position a combat group for the encircling movement. All this is great, however if the enemy chooses another attack route, it is of absolutely no use. Therefore, I had to funnel the Red Army into this clearing, surround it, and destroy it. I planned to do so by playing on his expectations of me having a small, concentrated SS force. In the center of the map is another strong defensive position based on elevated terrain. These heights were the highest point on the map, and would be a formidable position. If I had deployed there, the best way, and about the only way to outflank this position is to advance through the above mentioned clearing and take the defenders from the rear. In the first turns, besides moving troops out on reconnaissance and into the defensive position on the heights, I raced one 37mm PaK36, one 75mm infantry gun, and a few light and heavy machine guns to the heights in the center of the map. They managed to get there unhindered and hastily set up. Being the highest point on the map, the line of sight from this position was excellent. Before long, the reconnaissance elements had made visual contact and I opened up with everything into the area of Soviet troops. I would fire for a turn or two then reposition and open fire again. I hoped to leave the impression that this position were I had chosen deploy my troops. Soon, howitzer shells were falling and he set up his field guns to bombard the small detachment. Needless to say, it seemed to be working. Being the fact that in the previous games it would not have been wise to split up my forces and that my opponent is very hastily aggressive I had confidence that he would take the bait. While all this was going on, I formed the group to encircle the Red Army : the Panzer IIIJ platoon, one Marder III, two Aufklaerung platoons (with 50mm mortar), three MG34 LMG’s, and one additional 50mm mortar team. These were placed directly behind the heights in the middle of the map. My sharpshooters and a few split squads managed to maintain contact with the Red Army and sure enough, as the barrage opened up repeatedly from the heights in the middle, he began moving most of his armored forces into the east section of the map were he could gain cover. I lost contact at this point and hoped that he would enter the clearing. By this point, the forces allocated for the defense were in strong defensive positions: 2x Aufklaerung 41’ company 5x MG42 HMG 2x MG42 LMG 2x 37mm PaK36 2x 76.2mm/51 captured AT gun 1x 75mm infantry gun 1918 5x 81mm infantry mortar teams 6x 50mm infantry mortar teams 1x Regular Marder III (early) 2x Regular SturmgeschützIIIF (early) 1x Regular 105mm Artillery Spotter (6 tubes, 60 rounds) 1x Regular 75mm Artillery Spotter (6 tubes, 75 rounds) 1x Regular 81mm Mortar Spotter (4 tubes, 150 rounds) The AFV’s were on the reverse side of the heights, ready to move into combat range when needed. Luckily, my opponent fell for the bait and began to advance toward the clearing. The encircling battle group was able, with the help of forward sharpshooters, to slowly move behind the Red Army forces and stay out of visual range of his main force and support weapons that were further back. Finally, the Red Army appeared on the edge of the clearing. As he advanced I got an idea of his forces: it seemed that right after his probing element of armored cars and light infantry the T/34’s were spearheading his formations along with approximately one company of infantry and a few T-70’s. Next in line were the Matilda’s with about another company of infantry. Another company of infantry followed with another platoon of T-70’s. Being the fact that the entrance to the clearing was narrow, he had to form up as if marching and for whatever reason never returned to a more battle ready formation. By this time his entire front echelon had reached the center of the clearing and more troops were advancing around the edges under the cover of trees. They began to get uncomfortably close so as the last of the second echelon had entered I brought up the encircling battle group and started engaging the third echelon and shot up two T-70’s as the last of the infantry ran into nearby woods. At this point it seemed my opponent did not know what to do, as this move had caught him unprepared. He advanced further toward the base of the heights and my concealment was almost blown. However, he had gotten tired of watching my armor slay dozens of infantry unhindered. He decided to turn around and face these Panzers. Unfortunately for the Soviets, almost the entirety of his armor gave their complete rear to the above mentioned defenders. This is were things get ugly. As the T/34’s and Matildas’s turned to face my battlegroup, the defenders revealed themselves. Everybody opened fire with everything. The Soviet armor was shot to pieces in the crossfire of my battlegroup and defensive front. Four T/34’s, two Matilda’s, two T-70’s, and a few armored cars were shot up during the next few turns. The infantry company that had advanced with the front echelon completely disintegrated in the murderous fire of MG’s, HE rounds from all available guns, infantry mortars, assorted small arms, and artillery (105mm, 81mm mortars and 75mm). There may have been a few survivors, but I did not see any. The second Soviet company was mauled badly but managed to escape into nearby woods. The remaining Soviet forces, which amounted to about 1 company of infantry (add one or two platoons), one Matilda, assorted artillery, and a few field pieces did all they could do – run for their lives. They did not get far. The infantry went the only place they could, into the same woods that the third echelon infantry had entered, which were already surrounded. I destroyed the AT pieces with mortar fire, outflanked and shot up the Matilda, and shot down any Soviet who tried to escape. I managed to capture a mauled platoon and they gave up their arms, however there was some horrible miscalculation with my 105mm battery and they hit them dead on, …what a travesty. At this point I gathered all available artillery, field guns, MG’s, AFW’s, and infantry mortars and moved them into position to bombard the wooded area in which the Soviet infantry had fled to. These forces consisted of the following: 2x 37mm PaK36 Antitank Gun 2x Captured 76.2mm/51 antitank gun 1x 75mm/11 Infantry Gun 1918 5x 50mm Infantry Mortar Team 4x 81mm Infantry Mortar Team 3x Panzer IIIJ (late) 2x Marder III (early) 2x SturmgeschützIIIF (early) 4x MG42 HMG 2x MG42 LMG 2x MG34 LMG 1x 105mm Battery 1x 75mm Battery 1x 81mm Mortar Battery I list these forces in order to help the reader imagine the amount of shot and shell that was about to be unleashed. When everything was in place, all forces opened up and began the bombardment on the woods. This continued for a few turns until most of the ammunition was gone. Finally, I sent in the infantry to mop up any survivors. I found that about a whole company had been massacred in this tree burst deathtrap and only a few men remained alive, who surrendered immediately. As it turned out, these soldiers had a sinister plot to wait until my troops came close and then attack them with tree branches. There was nothing I could do but shoot them all. All that was left was to finish up the scattered stragglers and a few MG’s. The final casualty count was the following: Allied: 543 casualties (397 dead) 15 Vehicles 4 AT and Field guns 8 mortars Axis: 38 casualties (11 dead) 2 Vehicles 2 AT and Field guns 1 mortar I think this battle can be considered a success.

To further my point, examine the following (from Achtung Panzer!) _________________________ Pz.Kpfw.IV's in action. On February 7th of 1944, few remaining Panzer IV tanks from the 5th SS Panzer Division "Wiking" spearheaded the attempt to breakout from the Cherkassy Pocket against largely superior Soviet force. During the breakout, SS-Untersturmfuehrer Kurt Schumacher commanded two Panzer IVs, which counterattacked a Soviet tank company destroying in the process some 8 T-34 tanks. On the next day, Schumacher alone engaged another Soviet tank company and during both actions destroyed some 21 Soviet AFVs. For his achievement, he was awarded the Knight's Cross. On the afternoon of June 11th of 1944, the 8th Company of the 12th SS Panzer Regiment (12th SS Panzer Division "Hitlerjugend") counterattacked the attempt by Canadian 6th Armored Regiment (along with support units) to capture the area of Le Mesnil-Patry. The 12th SS Panzer Regiment commanded by SS-Obersturmfuehrer Hans Siegel destroyed some 37 Shermans, while losing 2 Panzer IVs and forcing Canadians to retreat. SS-Unterscharfuehrer Willy Kretzschmar, who commanded Panzer IV of the 5th Company of the 12th SS Panzer Regiment (12th SS Panzer Division "Hitlerjugend") destroyed some 15 Allied tanks during the Normandy battles, including the heavy fighting at Caen area.

Please forgive my harsh tone in the earlier post, as I realize it was unnecessary. I will try to explain my position in the following : _______________________ If you see the Pz.Kpfw. IV (model G onward) as "inferior" or "obsolete" in its deployment on the Eastern Front, I would encourage you to examine your opinion through historical perspective: 1 September 1939 - "Fall Weiss" The entire inventory of available Panzers was the following: 1445 - Pz.Kpfw. I 1223 - Pz.Kpfw. II 202 - Pz.Kpfw. 35t 78 - Pz.Kpfw. 38t 98 - Pz.Kpfw. III 211 - Pz.Kpfw. IV 215 - Pz.Befw. As you can see, the large majority of the Panzer formations were equiped with the Pz.Kpfw. I or Pz.Kpfw. II. Cleary, even in the earliest stages of the war these Panzers were indeed "inferior" and "obsolete" as they could be destroyed by any AT weapon in service and even HMG fire at close range (if firing S.m.K.H. amunition). If this is the case, how were the Panzers able to overun Poland in less than a month if they were outfitted with mostly Pz.Kpfw. I's and II's? Even the heavier Panzer III's and IV's were not sufficiently armored to withstand most of the AT weapons employed by the Polish Army. Despite this, the Panzers overan Poland and then exploded across Europe. Denmark, Norway, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Greece, Yugoslavia, and finally France were all defeated in rapid sucession. How can this be? Even by the fall of France many Panzer Abteilung were still equiped with Pz.Kpfw. I's and II's. The Panzer III's that were available were equipped with the 37mm KwK L/46.5 gun and were not refitted with the 50mm KwK L/42 until August 1940-1942. The Pz.Kpfw. III was intended to be the main AT defeating AFW in the Panzer Abteilung, however the French had tanks with better armor and more powerful guns. For example the French 4.7cm AT gun could penetrate the Pz.Kpfw. III's frontal armor at ranges exceeding 1500m! In order to enguage the heaviest French armor, the B2, the Panzers had to close to a range of under 250m and get clear shots at the flat plates at the rear of the B2, as firing at any other place, even at point blank range was a waste of ammunition. Despite being outnumbered and outgunned, the Panzer Abteilung ripped through Allied defenses with relative ease. What is the point of all this? It is intended to illustrate the fact that utilizing Panzer formations which were outnumbered and whose large majority of tanks were clearly "inferior" were able to achieve one of the greatest military victories of modern times. Concerning the later models of the Pz.Kpfw. IV, all of the German after action reports that I have read have indicated that the Pz.Kpfw. IV was indeed an excellent AFW. Therefore I would encourage you to put more value on historical evidence and perspective than on a CM simulation. As I have explained the Panzer Abteilung were almost always outnumbered and outgunned during the entire war including the time that the Pz.Kpfw.IV proved itself on the battlefield. Therefore, I would encourage you to examine the situation in more detail before you declare the Pz.Kpfw.IV "inferior", "obsolete", and an outright failure. I would imagine a large number of German officers and Panzer crews would take issue with your opinion.

Just playing various CMBB scenarios, I've noticed I almost never choose the Pz IV. Early on, the Pz III seems to be a better choice for several reasons. Like Pz IVs, they need to get incredibly close to deal with KVs, but they're better armored, smaller, faster, and more accurate at long range (for those lucky weak spots and track hits). Oh, and let's not forget cheaper. By the time the Pz IV has the L43 gun, it's so underarmored relative to Russian guns that the extra expense for Tigers, and later, Panthers is completely justified. Only in those situations when I expect an infantry-heavy force would I trade 4 Tigers for 8 Pz IVs. Even a Pz IVH has enough trouble stopping the 76mm round, so the appearance of the 85 makes an inferior tank completely obsolescent unless you happen to use ambush tactics more in line with those for a StuG on the offensive. Or is it just me? Well, I'm not sure that anyone is willing to waste their time to explain the obvious, however I will provide a short answer. The Panzer IV was an excellent AFW, and it was this Panzer that made up the heart of many Panzer Abteilung at the beginning of 1943 onward. Being the fact that the Panzer V Panther was not in mass production unil May 1943, and that it took a significant amount of time to provide Panthers to the Panzer Abteilung in any significant numbers, the Panzer IV was a large part of the German Panzer formations. The production of Panzer IV's was not stopped until early 45', but even then General Guderian made sure that the stoppage never took place. You talk about choosing Panzer VI Tiger's instead of Panzer IV's. I'm not sure that a German Panzer crew could take this course of action. Even if they could have, German industries only produced around 1300 Panzer VI Tigers during the time after July 1942 when the first Tiger was battlefield ready. This being the case, the Tiger's reputation went far beyond their actual effectiveness. Don't read that statement the wrong way, everybody knows the Tiger's battlefield ability is superior, however when the Soviets put out over 40,000 T/34's the situation is very bleak. The point of this is that the Panzer IV played a much bigger role in the Axis war effort than many people realize. Calling the later model Panzer IV's with the additional armor and the 75mm/43 or 75mm/48 gun "inferior" or "obsolete" is absolute drivel. I would encourage you to stop playing with most of your force being Panzer VI Tigers, Panzer V Panthers, Uber Sturmgeschütz, and Jagdpanzers in order to see how effective the Panzer IV can be if used correctly. In short, it is definitely you. I know the above may sound harsh, however I have seen many other threads where people start complaining about the combat performance of the Panzer IV and I am quite tired of this nonsense. :mad: Indeed, it is definitely you.

Well, my forces have undergone another total reevaluation. Having taken into account all of the advice posted thus far, I put together the following loadout.... CMBB – Central Russia, Large Map - Rural, Small Hills August 1942 QB ME 3000 Points Axis Forces Branch – Heeres Infantry 1x Regular Aufklaerung Battalion ‘41B Support (attached to Aufklaerung Battalion) 6x Regular MG42 HMG 1x Regular MG34 LMG 3x Regular 37mm PaK36 Antitank Gun 2x Regular 75mm/11 Infantry Gun 1918 9x Regular 50mm Infantry Mortar Team (1/Infantry Platoon) Support (not attached to Aufklaerung Battalion) 2x Regular Captured 76.2mm/51 antitank gun 2x Regular Sharpshooter 2x Regular MG34 HMG 4x Regular MG34 LMG 2x Regular MG42 LMG 5x Regular 81mm Infantry Mortar Team Vehicles 4x Regular Kubelwagon 3x Regular Sd Kfz 7 Gun Tractor Armor 1x Veteran Panzer IIIJ (late) Platoon (4x) 2x Regular Marder III (early) 2x Regular SturmgeschützIIIF (early) Artillery 1x Regular 105mm Artillery Spotter (6 tubes, 60 rounds) 1x Regular 75mm Artillery Spotter (6 tubes, 75 rounds) 1x Regular 81mm Mortar Spotter (4 tubes, 150 rounds) Total - 3000 points ______ Obviously, things have changed a bit. The first major change is that I have decided to assemble a force based around standard Heeres Infantry formations instead of veteran SS Infantry. This decision was made based on the fact that the Heeres Aufklaerung Battalion ‘41B is very cost effective and contains valuable heavy weapons at a much reduced cost. The three companies of infantry, HMG's, IG's and AT weaponry attached to the battalion allow me to spread my firepower out, which is quite valuable when facing high caliber Soviet artillery. The 37mm PaK36 might not seem valuable, however give each one 4-5 rounds of Stielgranate ammunition and watch the surprise as a 37mm AT blows the hull of a T/34 wide open and sets the ammunition cache on fire. To command a full battalion required obvious cutbacks - 75mm IG's instead of 150mm/11, 2 SturmgeschützIIIF instead of a full platoon, and captured 76.2mm AT guns instead of 75mm PaK40's(the performance difference in these AT guns is quite minimal) Despite this, I think I have gone in the right direction. The added artilery firepower will also prove itself cost effective. The artillery spotters are also much easier to conceal than a 150mm/11 IG blasting away with HE rounds and just begging for 122mm howitzer rounds to rain on him and his team. There is one additional advantage that a full battalion provides that cannot be overlooked. This lies in the fact that I have already fought this opponent twice in the same theater and climate situations with an SS force that was extremely concentrated. With this opponent being very aggressive and expecting two companies of infantry and a small reserve, I think I should be able to take advantage of his expectations. This would envolve setting up a defensive position with two companies of infantry, all of the AT weapons, artillery, 81mm mortars, the HMG's, and the two SturmgeschützIIIF and letting him advance to the point where he is heavily enguaged with my defensive front. While he was advancing I would get the third company of infantry, LMG's, 50mm mortars, the Marder III's, and the Panzer IIIJ platoon into position to swing around his flank and encircle him. When my defensive front is heavily enguaged launch the outflanking movement. Against a veteran player, this would be quite a gamble, as he would have in all likelihood detected the presence of another strong concentration of forces with his reconnaissance or flank support. However, If you had seen the manner in which my opponent attacked, you would see the same opportunity. He does not know the meaning of reconnaissance and has almost enough flank support to stop a single split squad. I again ask for any thoughts on the formations I have chosen or the tactical plan I have discussed. One specific question: Is there a significant difference in the ability of regular SS Infantry and regular Heeres Infantry? Thanks!