Licensed Fool

CMBB isn't bugged regarding the AFV-retreat thing, it's just that Steve and his colleagues gave the crews AI an over-developed sense of self preservation,its as simple as that, just as Steve himself half-admitted! Other members besides myself therefore feel a tweak is needed to set things right. In all my years of studying WW2 armoured warfare I've never come across any consistent examples of AFVs slamming into reverse as often as they do in CMBB.I know this is a new game so I can only assume that you've pedestalised it to such an extent that you can't or won't acknowledge it may have a foible or two,and that people like me are blasphemous heretics! I've been playing tac-level East Front boardgames for 30 years for heavens sake,and know the subject inside out! Perhaps thats what my immature critics can't handle? No wonder Vet Gamer and Scatterbrain Kid turned their backs on this baying kindergarten and walked out in disgust.Hey guys wait for me..!

Why didn't my tiny Russian 25mm flak guns crew abandon it and run like crazy when my pbem opponents Panther turned up at close range,instead of sticking with their gun for a short-lived one-sided shootout and dying in the process?

YES STEVE! I fully agree with you on point 6 of your TacAI posting where you say-"If there is criticism to be made about the TacAI decisions,it isn't that they're wrong...but that they are too correct.It could be that the TacAI is too smart compared to a real life crew in the same situation." Now at last we're getting to the nitty-gritty of this long debate! No disrespect to our Russian tank crews,but historically their level of education was not too hot,and I can't therefore see them being able to assess an enemy tanks threat capability as quickly as they do in the game.In an earlier posting I presented my "credentials" that I think show I'm something of an authority on the Eastern Front 1941-45,and was called a liar by at least one immature subsequent poster.I hoped that my postings would give Battlefront and the more sensible fellow gamers some valuable and interesting feedback on how I see CMBB, but if I'm to be howled down every time,why should I bother?

AHA ALL IS REVEALED! CMBB is one of those puzzle games! Never was much good at them myself,I've been stuck in The Hobbit on the Spectrum for the past 20 years!Hope I can figger out CMBB a lot quicker than that!

For my part,I apologised in a post way back for sounding disrespectful,and I also said I'd taken on board Steve's excellent explanation of A.I. routines and would be testing his and other peoples suggestions re the backing off aspect,and that I was already drifting from Redwolf towards Steve on this. This seems a logical course of action for me,but if I'd have dug in and refused to bend or see another guys point of view,I'd fully deserve to be called a fool!

You really know you're stuff Bastables and are a credit to the forum,but my posting was meant to illustrate the valour of Russian tankers seeking to ram,without a thought of backing off. I offered it purely as food for thought...!

And check out "Panzers in Normandy" for a detailed account with street maps,photos and tankers personal narratives of how "inferior" Brit Cromwells gutsily stalked Wittman's Tiger through the streets hoping for a knock-out shot as it went on a killing spree through Villers-Bocage...

More food for thought-As we all know,Russian tankers at the Battle of Kursk actually rammed German tanks in their eagerness to get to close quarters. So no backing off there then...!

Food for thought-Check out Guderian's "Panzer Leader" where he says how he complimented a Waffen-SS commander on the excellent performance of his men,but had to point out that their fearless aggressiveness in combat meant they were taking far too many casualties...

Andreas-The main thing I noticed as I progressed through the postings was that a good many of the large initially "undecided" group slowly began to abandon their neutral stance and polarise toward one side or the other,or switch sides completely. Even I may drift from Redwolf towards Steve!

Of these 280 replies,69 are pro-Redwolf,89 are pro-Steve,and 122 are neutral or digressional. It seems Redwolf was too obsessed with his sole JSU-v-IVL example instead of looking at the broader picture. Steves page 8 explanation of A.I.routines was an absolute classic and I'll certainly be taking it on board and running tests to see if it makes me abandon my current stance of feeling that AFVs retreat more often than they should.I shall also follow up other contributors suggestions re arcs/scoot/hunt etc. Sorry if I offended anyone by sounding disrespectful in a couple of posts,but we all do it sometimes!--Even Steve said to Redwolf- "Your flaw-finding stinks..You make an arse out of yourself..You don't know what you're talking about..I'd smack your silly forces all over the map..Admit you know squat.." And Steve to Capt Kloss-"Your attitude sucks..You pulled your argument out of your arse.." ! To answer the poster who asked "Who is this Licensed Fool anyway?",I'm a grog in my 50's,a writer,wargame-designer/developer specialising in the Eastern Front 1941-45 and in my time have played just about every related boardgame and read every factual book and eye-witness account that's ever been produced on the subject,including stuff sent me by the Russian Embassy in London in order to get the view from their side.I've also got acquaintances,contacts and pen-pals who were in the firing line,such as a Waffen-SS tank commander who fought at Tarnopol,and later had his Tiger shot out from under him by a Brit anti-tank unit in Normandy.

Okay okay!-I'll read and digest every single thread on this topic to get to the bottom of why my tanks are slamming into reverse when they shouldn't be!(CMBO doesn't seem to do it) Or will the manual tell me? If it's my tactics that are at fault surely the manual wasn't clear enough in the first place anyway? And if there's nothing in Redwolfs original claim,why has it drawn a massive 276 replies?

When I got CMBB a few weeks ago I thought WOWEE this is great stuff,but then I started noticing tanks reversing at the sight of an enemy tank,and I thought NAH that can't be right ! It happens so often that it completely RUINS the game for me and I've hardly any more enthusiasm for CMBB until Battlefront fix it. WATCH MY LIPS--IT'S A SERIOUS GAME-DESIGN FLAW! Which part of that don't you kiddies understand?

Perhaps the A.I. makes AFV crews TOO intelligent to the point of unreality? In the real world,given their tough national character trait a typical gutsy Russian crew would open fire immediately on any German AFV they saw if there was a halfway-decent chance of nailing it. Are Redwolf and me and a few others the only sighted dudes in this forum of the blind?

With respect,Battlefront can talk til they're blue in the face defending the A.I. but the inescapable fact remains that CMBB has a serious flaw in that AFVs slam into reverse far too often at the sight of an enemy AFV even though their vehicle is quite capable of standing and slugging it out.If it happened just rarely I'd accept it as a foible of tank crews human nature, but it happens too often by far.This is not good.

Maybe Battlefront should publish a list of ALL factors that the A.I. takes into account when making some AFVs back off from a "threat" and with what weighting,so we could see the formula for ourselves? E.g.-Respective crew quality/armour thickness/gun capabilities/cover terrain/hull-down/moving or stationary/in or out of command/buttoned or unbuttoned etc.(Anything I've missed?) The bottom line is,some AFVs in the game retreat when they shouldn't,hence the game seriously lacks realism until its put right.